This is the problem with forums (and this site is awful for it). Instead of discussing, people just want to force their opinions out onto others. I welcome all intellectual debate, and, the same for me, the patient and understanding people who are on the other side of an arguement usually have the most interesting things to say (for me).

I could talk about how cool I think Natal will be, and if only Natal-believers respond, that's okay, but they'll mostly say things I've thought of already. But then someone Anti-Natal comes, and they bring up some very cool, very valid points. AND they do it respectfully. That's how a mature forum should be.

I completely agree though, if people are going to just leave comments like 'Well MS sucks, so I don't want any of their products' can just stay away. What do you add with a comment like that? Or here's a better comment that was in this thread

"Replace controller? That will never happen. You need buttons for certain experiences.

Keep on dreaming microsoft."

Why can't you say why you think it will never happen? What experiences do you NEED buttons for, and why can't it be replaced? If you explained that out, the last comment wouldn't be trollish, but by not describing your thought process, it just makes you sound short-sighted.

Further, when others respond with their thoughts about why they think those experiences CAN be replaced, and that buttons aren't necessary, actually think it through, don't just dismiss it because you didn't agree in the first place. Actually think it through, and you might find some of your ideas were wrong, or not warranted, or maybe even reaffirm what you already believed in.

would you like to bet on that? Cause I really don't think Natal will sell consoles. If anything, it seems to something that would appeal to someone who already owns a 360. The only way to boost console sales at this point is with software and price cuts.

Here is one idea of how a Natal UI could work.

Instead of an interface where there are no graphical displays and control would be done through gestures alone, there could be onscreen buttons that are "clicked".  With both hands you would make a sweeping upwards gesture to bring up the interface, which would contain the buttons corresponding to whatever it is that needs interacting with.  For example a movie interface, would have buttons for forward, pause, rewind, etc. 

Once the hands are swept up, the interface comes on screen.  Natal cannot tell where on the screen you are pointing, so there will be an onscreen effect(a swirling effect, or perhaps a hand) to represent where your hands are so you can move to the buttons.  The way the effect is placed on screen would be determining the hand position relative to the shoulders and extrapolate that over the resolution of the display device.  This way, the person is interacting with the screen relative to themselves and not the screen directly.  IE, the button is on the bottom left of the screen, the person would move their hand down to the bottom left of their body no matter where they are sitting.  This could also be calculated for people sitting in rotations less than 90 degrees from Natal.  People could relate to the effect on screen and quickly interact with whatever it is that needs interacting with.  This will of course make more sense to your brain if your body is at least mostly facing the screen.

The "click" could be performed by moving the hand towards the screen and back twice in succession.  Much like punching, or tapping the button.  Because Natal can detect depth quite easily, the movement does not have to be very much, but in order avoid false positives, a decent amount of movement would probably provide a better experience.

I am not saying a graphic less UI would not work with Natal, but that there is more than one way to do this.  This method could even work for several games.  Imagine a mech warrior type game where you are in a cockpit and all the controls are represented on screen.  You would maneuver by grabbing some joysticks relative to your body.  Push and pull levers to speed up/slow down.  That would be feasible using this method.  So you would have a 1:1 relationship with this virtual cockpit.

I couldn't care less if you decide to troll about Sony's dil...wand, and it won't by any means offend me.

About Natal, in another thread I explained what makes me doubt that it could be as general purpose as WiiMote + Natal, sometimes joking, but never trolling and agreeing with other people that, for example, it coud be perfect fo some games, including dance ones, here in this thread I simply agreed with somebody else's doubts about its use as remote control and as I didn't write any posts before, here, I don't think you were calling me troll, but I felt you are a little bit jumpy calling so many other people trolls, because posts like Naznatips' and Naum's ones, use sarcasm or humour not just to dig at Natal, but to explain, and quite clearly too, their doubts.

As I simply agreed with some other people's doubt, here I'll add a particular doubt of mine: already now we have available tens channels, with digital terrestrial they'll become hundreds, choosing channels with gestures won't be more complex than by keying in a number on the remote?

Acceptable solutions to all these doubts and problems should avoid both overcomplex gestures and accidental input from people movements.

So basically you are saying replace a real controller with a virtual one?  And how would that replace universal remotes that control mulitple sources? 

Not to mention you've just replaced something simple and quick to use with something that's signifficantly more difficult and slower.

EXACTLY. When talking innovation you can take a step forward to introduce new ideas. When your talking of "replacing" things it has to not only be easier, but it needs to be more efficient.

The ideas people are thowing out sound cool but they arent plausible from a mass penetration standpoint.

I wonder if people wonder why  on forums we read these incredible ideas of uses for these products, but the people getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to actually do them dont, because they simply cant and it doesnt work.

The best example i have for this is home. Remember when we were supposed to have a facebook/myspace like online connectivity. To communicate through all mediums? Invite friends from other contries or states to our home space to share in watching a movie we are watching in our PS3? Go into the warhawk homespace to draw plans for a map and hop in game to utilize the strategy? Go to a games homespace to meet people looking to play and hop in to tackle team objective like LBP?

All sounds amazing on paper and in the forum, never comes to fruition because it isnt easy to do.

2 things I really like about your post.

A) That mech game sounds fun =P

B) You're actually trying to come up with some way that Natal could do this, unlike most people that say 'this could work' or 'I don't want a nod of my head to turn off the TV'. I think, so long as there isn't this lag issue people are crying about, that your idea could work well. As for whether it makes it more efficient, I don't know, it might need something more/else.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could program certain motions as shortcuts, not to mention you should be able to set sensitivity.

An idea I had, instead of motions, voice commands. Think of those movies and TV shows "Computer, make me coffee". You could start with something people don't say normally (like Natal, or whatever the final product name is) and then say a command. It's not like you would say Natal 20 times in a normal conversion, so it shouldn't interfere with talking. Also, you could set sensivity as well for that, so maybe you want Natal to pick up your voice even if you're fairly quiet, or you want to need to speak louder to input commands. Some of it is kind of silly, but it definitely gives a futuristic feel. The ONLY way this works though is if the voice-recognition is FAR superior to what's on the market today. "Call Becka" Phone says/shows on screen "Did you mean Jonathon?" haha.

Or a mix of voice and gestures. Depth/motion sensing, voice commands, there are plenty of possibilities. My one worry about whether it could really work or not has to do with lag. I know most people are saying it wouldn't be over 100 ms of lag, but if its over eve 50 ms, it will be very annoying. But we'll have to wait and see, I am excited about the potential/possibilities though.

Hmm, would be cool to do it in Minority Report-style.

How are you going to convince Natal though that it has to give my preferences for tv and not of the girlfriend who just walked in? (that problem is always solved by hiding the remote >_>)

Alby_Da_Wolf.
you seem to think I was talking about you or anyone who doesn't like Natal.
I'm talking about the trouble makers only.
As I've said if you don't like it say so. Just give a reason why and not because you don't want to like Natal you've already dismissed it.

If that's you then it's you if not then don't worry about it it only applies to those trouble makers.