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Forums - Sales - Level 5 : JRPG's LOOSING Momentum in Japan, FF13 can HELP JRPG's in west!

dobby985 on 20 November 2009
darthdevidem01 said:
reaver_x said:
marc said:
jarrod said:
Er, after FFX was also when the series started to deviate and experiment? Doesn't that actually go against your claim that JRPG decline is due to stagnation?

I am not really sure what you mean by "experiment." Even FFXIII remains true, for the most part, to older FF games albeit it shamefully copied star wars in many ways but that doesnt really bother me granted I couldnt stomach to finish the game. X and X2 both had settings that were very similar to VII and VIII. IX was a throwback game. So far, nothing new aside from graphics. The stories always play out the same way too. A drama about a bunch of tweeny people that were in the right place at the right time who somehow become stronger than anyone around and fall in a meritless and completely unbelievable romance before saving the world from a weakling boss. The premise is fine for the most part but the writing in most jrpg's is so bad and cheesy that it become unbearable.

and the storyline's in WRPG's are any better???? appart from Bioware products, most WRPG's either have weak stories or none at all(which is why fallout 3 and oblivion are such an abomination). At least JRPG's attempt giving u a good story some are epic some arent but at least i no there trying.

Agreed

Oblivions & Fallout 3's story was such a joke

Bioware on the other hand....PROPS to them for having a gripping story throughout a long game

its so hard to make a GOOD story for a 50 hour game

Its much easier to make a good one for a 10 hour game on the other hand

How so?



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ShadowSoldier on 20 November 2009
darthdevidem01 said:
reaver_x said:
marc said:
jarrod said:
Er, after FFX was also when the series started to deviate and experiment? Doesn't that actually go against your claim that JRPG decline is due to stagnation?

I am not really sure what you mean by "experiment." Even FFXIII remains true, for the most part, to older FF games albeit it shamefully copied star wars in many ways but that doesnt really bother me granted I couldnt stomach to finish the game. X and X2 both had settings that were very similar to VII and VIII. IX was a throwback game. So far, nothing new aside from graphics. The stories always play out the same way too. A drama about a bunch of tweeny people that were in the right place at the right time who somehow become stronger than anyone around and fall in a meritless and completely unbelievable romance before saving the world from a weakling boss. The premise is fine for the most part but the writing in most jrpg's is so bad and cheesy that it become unbearable.

and the storyline's in WRPG's are any better???? appart from Bioware products, most WRPG's either have weak stories or none at all(which is why fallout 3 and oblivion are such an abomination). At least JRPG's attempt giving u a good story some are epic some arent but at least i no there trying.

Agreed

Oblivions & Fallout 3's story was such a joke

Bioware on the other hand....PROPS to them for having a gripping story throughout a long game

its so hard to make a GOOD story for a 50 hour game

Its much easier to make a good one for a 10 hour game on the other hand

Yeah, I have a lot of respect for Bioware. They were the whole reason I gave WRPGs any chance whatsoever. Them and Obsidian. I honestly believe Bethesda is a highly overrated company that can't even make a decent story.



Black Women Are The Most Beautiful Women On The Planet.

"In video game terms, RPGs are games that involve a form of separate battles taking place with a specialized battle system and the use of a system that increases your power through a form of points.

Sure, what you say is the definition, but the connotation of RPGs is what they are in video games." - dtewi

ShadowSoldier on 20 November 2009
dobby985 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
reaver_x said:
marc said:
jarrod said:
Er, after FFX was also when the series started to deviate and experiment? Doesn't that actually go against your claim that JRPG decline is due to stagnation?

I am not really sure what you mean by "experiment." Even FFXIII remains true, for the most part, to older FF games albeit it shamefully copied star wars in many ways but that doesnt really bother me granted I couldnt stomach to finish the game. X and X2 both had settings that were very similar to VII and VIII. IX was a throwback game. So far, nothing new aside from graphics. The stories always play out the same way too. A drama about a bunch of tweeny people that were in the right place at the right time who somehow become stronger than anyone around and fall in a meritless and completely unbelievable romance before saving the world from a weakling boss. The premise is fine for the most part but the writing in most jrpg's is so bad and cheesy that it become unbearable.

and the storyline's in WRPG's are any better???? appart from Bioware products, most WRPG's either have weak stories or none at all(which is why fallout 3 and oblivion are such an abomination). At least JRPG's attempt giving u a good story some are epic some arent but at least i no there trying.

Agreed

Oblivions & Fallout 3's story was such a joke

Bioware on the other hand....PROPS to them for having a gripping story throughout a long game

its so hard to make a GOOD story for a 50 hour game

Its much easier to make a good one for a 10 hour game on the other hand

How so?

The stories were almost non-existent, and in Fallout 3's case it was so vauge you had to squint to see it



Black Women Are The Most Beautiful Women On The Planet.

"In video game terms, RPGs are games that involve a form of separate battles taking place with a specialized battle system and the use of a system that increases your power through a form of points.

Sure, what you say is the definition, but the connotation of RPGs is what they are in video games." - dtewi

reaver_x on 20 November 2009
dobby985 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
reaver_x said:
marc said:
jarrod said:
Er, after FFX was also when the series started to deviate and experiment? Doesn't that actually go against your claim that JRPG decline is due to stagnation?

I am not really sure what you mean by "experiment." Even FFXIII remains true, for the most part, to older FF games albeit it shamefully copied star wars in many ways but that doesnt really bother me granted I couldnt stomach to finish the game. X and X2 both had settings that were very similar to VII and VIII. IX was a throwback game. So far, nothing new aside from graphics. The stories always play out the same way too. A drama about a bunch of tweeny people that were in the right place at the right time who somehow become stronger than anyone around and fall in a meritless and completely unbelievable romance before saving the world from a weakling boss. The premise is fine for the most part but the writing in most jrpg's is so bad and cheesy that it become unbearable.

and the storyline's in WRPG's are any better???? appart from Bioware products, most WRPG's either have weak stories or none at all(which is why fallout 3 and oblivion are such an abomination). At least JRPG's attempt giving u a good story some are epic some arent but at least i no there trying.

Agreed

Oblivions & Fallout 3's story was such a joke

Bioware on the other hand....PROPS to them for having a gripping story throughout a long game

its so hard to make a GOOD story for a 50 hour game

Its much easier to make a good one for a 10 hour game on the other hand

How so?

too much god damn side questing for one. Sure its always good to allow the player to explore his surroundings, but the way it was done here was just a complete mess it felt liek i was playing an MMO which in this case is not a good thing b/c its a single player game. The lack of direction in the game was just terrible as well u spend more hours on side questing then u do on the main story and some quests have u go all the way across the map instead of within the same area ur in. If u played Mass effect and KOTOR ull see that u can do ur side quests while ur progressing through the main quests which is a lot more convient IMO.

 

its for this reason that i approach WRPG's with extreme caution espically those that arent made by Bioware




 

 

                     

darthdevidem01 on 20 November 2009
dobby985 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
reaver_x said:
marc said:
jarrod said:
Er, after FFX was also when the series started to deviate and experiment? Doesn't that actually go against your claim that JRPG decline is due to stagnation?

I am not really sure what you mean by "experiment." Even FFXIII remains true, for the most part, to older FF games albeit it shamefully copied star wars in many ways but that doesnt really bother me granted I couldnt stomach to finish the game. X and X2 both had settings that were very similar to VII and VIII. IX was a throwback game. So far, nothing new aside from graphics. The stories always play out the same way too. A drama about a bunch of tweeny people that were in the right place at the right time who somehow become stronger than anyone around and fall in a meritless and completely unbelievable romance before saving the world from a weakling boss. The premise is fine for the most part but the writing in most jrpg's is so bad and cheesy that it become unbearable.

and the storyline's in WRPG's are any better???? appart from Bioware products, most WRPG's either have weak stories or none at all(which is why fallout 3 and oblivion are such an abomination). At least JRPG's attempt giving u a good story some are epic some arent but at least i no there trying.

Agreed

Oblivions & Fallout 3's story was such a joke

Bioware on the other hand....PROPS to them for having a gripping story throughout a long game

its so hard to make a GOOD story for a 50 hour game

Its much easier to make a good one for a 10 hour game on the other hand

How so?

Oblivions main quest storyline was HORRID...it was basic, full of plot holes, silly at some points & guess what, I didn't really care about it....which says a lot as I;m a very story orientated gamer.

Fallout 3? It had a main storyline? Well ofcourse it did, a boring one TBH, apart from the bit where you go into the black n white town it was horrid. There was No flow to the storyline at all....once again very basic basic.

Bethesda is FANTASTIC at making side quests (in oblivion anyway).....Oblivion was my favorite WRPG because of its fabulous side quests & atmosphere, Fallout 3's atmosphere was superb too.

Making a story & keeping your gripped for all those hours in an RPG is very hard, hell only 1 Final Fantasy kept me gripped the whole way & thats Final Fantasy 6....the others also seemed "long winded/I don't care anymore/what the hells going on" towards the end.

On the other hand Bioware with both KOTOR/KOTOR 2 (I was gripped throughout the whole damn long game) & so far Dragon age Origins had me gripped, they are really good at making a story flow well....very good. ove their NPC's too, Bethesda's NPC's suck



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

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reaver_x on 20 November 2009
darthdevidem01 said:
dobby985 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
reaver_x said:
marc said:
jarrod said:
Er, after FFX was also when the series started to deviate and experiment? Doesn't that actually go against your claim that JRPG decline is due to stagnation?

I am not really sure what you mean by "experiment." Even FFXIII remains true, for the most part, to older FF games albeit it shamefully copied star wars in many ways but that doesnt really bother me granted I couldnt stomach to finish the game. X and X2 both had settings that were very similar to VII and VIII. IX was a throwback game. So far, nothing new aside from graphics. The stories always play out the same way too. A drama about a bunch of tweeny people that were in the right place at the right time who somehow become stronger than anyone around and fall in a meritless and completely unbelievable romance before saving the world from a weakling boss. The premise is fine for the most part but the writing in most jrpg's is so bad and cheesy that it become unbearable.

and the storyline's in WRPG's are any better???? appart from Bioware products, most WRPG's either have weak stories or none at all(which is why fallout 3 and oblivion are such an abomination). At least JRPG's attempt giving u a good story some are epic some arent but at least i no there trying.

Agreed

Oblivions & Fallout 3's story was such a joke

Bioware on the other hand....PROPS to them for having a gripping story throughout a long game

its so hard to make a GOOD story for a 50 hour game

Its much easier to make a good one for a 10 hour game on the other hand

How so?

Oblivions main quest storyline was HORRID...it was basic, full of plot holes, silly at some points & guess what, I didn't really care about it....which says a lot as I;m a very story orientated gamer.

Fallout 3? It had a main storyline? Well ofcourse it did, a boring one TBH, apart from the bit where you go into the black n white town it was horrid. There was No flow to the storyline at all....once again very basic basic.

Bethesda is FANTASTIC at making side quests (in oblivion anyway).....Oblivion was my favorite WRPG because of its fabulous side quests & atmosphere, Fallout 3's atmosphere was superb too.

Making a story & keeping your gripped for all those hours in an RPG is very hard, hell only 1 Final Fantasy kept me gripped the whole way & thats Final Fantasy 6....the others also seemed "long winded/I don't care anymore/what the hells going on" towards the end.

On the other hand Bioware with both KOTOR/KOTOR 2 (I was gripped throughout the whole damn long game) & so far Dragon age Origins had me gripped, they are really good at making a story flow well....very good. ove their NPC's too, Bethesda's NPC's suck

 

i think of it this way. They can do watever the hell they want with an RPG make it flashy, change up the gameplay watever. But if it dosent have a good story it might as well just belong in the fukkin trash can




 

 

                     

darthdevidem01 on 20 November 2009
reaver_x said:
darthdevidem01 said:
dobby985 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
reaver_x said:
marc said:
jarrod said:
Er, after FFX was also when the series started to deviate and experiment? Doesn't that actually go against your claim that JRPG decline is due to stagnation?

I am not really sure what you mean by "experiment." Even FFXIII remains true, for the most part, to older FF games albeit it shamefully copied star wars in many ways but that doesnt really bother me granted I couldnt stomach to finish the game. X and X2 both had settings that were very similar to VII and VIII. IX was a throwback game. So far, nothing new aside from graphics. The stories always play out the same way too. A drama about a bunch of tweeny people that were in the right place at the right time who somehow become stronger than anyone around and fall in a meritless and completely unbelievable romance before saving the world from a weakling boss. The premise is fine for the most part but the writing in most jrpg's is so bad and cheesy that it become unbearable.

and the storyline's in WRPG's are any better???? appart from Bioware products, most WRPG's either have weak stories or none at all(which is why fallout 3 and oblivion are such an abomination). At least JRPG's attempt giving u a good story some are epic some arent but at least i no there trying.

Agreed

Oblivions & Fallout 3's story was such a joke

Bioware on the other hand....PROPS to them for having a gripping story throughout a long game

its so hard to make a GOOD story for a 50 hour game

Its much easier to make a good one for a 10 hour game on the other hand

How so?

Oblivions main quest storyline was HORRID...it was basic, full of plot holes, silly at some points & guess what, I didn't really care about it....which says a lot as I;m a very story orientated gamer.

Fallout 3? It had a main storyline? Well ofcourse it did, a boring one TBH, apart from the bit where you go into the black n white town it was horrid. There was No flow to the storyline at all....once again very basic basic.

Bethesda is FANTASTIC at making side quests (in oblivion anyway).....Oblivion was my favorite WRPG because of its fabulous side quests & atmosphere, Fallout 3's atmosphere was superb too.

Making a story & keeping your gripped for all those hours in an RPG is very hard, hell only 1 Final Fantasy kept me gripped the whole way & thats Final Fantasy 6....the others also seemed "long winded/I don't care anymore/what the hells going on" towards the end.

On the other hand Bioware with both KOTOR/KOTOR 2 (I was gripped throughout the whole damn long game) & so far Dragon age Origins had me gripped, they are really good at making a story flow well....very good. ove their NPC's too, Bethesda's NPC's suck

 

i think of it this way. They can do watever the hell they want with an RPG make it flashy, change up the gameplay watever. But if it dosent have a good story it might as well just belong in the fukkin trash can

Totally agree......I just think that maybe if The side quests had been Oblivions main story (especially the dark brotherhood) it would be better as they WERE better than the main story.



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

reaver_x on 20 November 2009

^ well that certainly would have helped things darth b/c i did enjoy the dark brotherhood quests. and if those were part of the main storyline instead of closing oblivion gates the most boring thing ive seen im my entire life, then maybe just maybe i would have praised this game a lot more




 

 

                     

dobby985 on 20 November 2009
reaver_x said:
dobby985 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
reaver_x said:
marc said:
jarrod said:
Er, after FFX was also when the series started to deviate and experiment? Doesn't that actually go against your claim that JRPG decline is due to stagnation?

I am not really sure what you mean by "experiment." Even FFXIII remains true, for the most part, to older FF games albeit it shamefully copied star wars in many ways but that doesnt really bother me granted I couldnt stomach to finish the game. X and X2 both had settings that were very similar to VII and VIII. IX was a throwback game. So far, nothing new aside from graphics. The stories always play out the same way too. A drama about a bunch of tweeny people that were in the right place at the right time who somehow become stronger than anyone around and fall in a meritless and completely unbelievable romance before saving the world from a weakling boss. The premise is fine for the most part but the writing in most jrpg's is so bad and cheesy that it become unbearable.

and the storyline's in WRPG's are any better???? appart from Bioware products, most WRPG's either have weak stories or none at all(which is why fallout 3 and oblivion are such an abomination). At least JRPG's attempt giving u a good story some are epic some arent but at least i no there trying.

Agreed

Oblivions & Fallout 3's story was such a joke

Bioware on the other hand....PROPS to them for having a gripping story throughout a long game

its so hard to make a GOOD story for a 50 hour game

Its much easier to make a good one for a 10 hour game on the other hand

How so?

too much god damn side questing for one. Sure its always good to allow the player to explore his surroundings, but the way it was done here was just a complete mess it felt liek i was playing an MMO which in this case is not a good thing b/c its a single player game. The lack of direction in the game was just terrible as well u spend more hours on side questing then u do on the main story and some quests have u go all the way across the map instead of within the same area ur in. If u played Mass effect and KOTOR ull see that u can do ur side quests while ur progressing through the main quests which is a lot more convient IMO.

 

its for this reason that i approach WRPG's with extreme caution espically those that arent made by Bioware

What on earth has that got to do with the storyline?

Also if you have Broken Steel installed then you will be able to do the sidequests any time you want.



dobby985 on 20 November 2009

How many of you guys have actually played the Fallout 3 DLC?