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Forums - Gaming - I have more respect for multi-platform developers than console exclusive

Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
I respect the devs the most who take advantage of their target hardware and modern technology (HDTV, surround sound, internet connectivity, etc) the most (like Blu-Ray and the Cell processor). So especially Naughty Dog.

I have far less respect for exclusive developers who built their games based on multi-platform game engines (so no real technical reason to not port their games onto all capable consoles). (for example Epic)

The least I respect one developing company which apparently lacks ambition to push their game engine towards new more competent challenges (changes which would only modernize and optimize their engine), this while talking pure trash regarding their true motives. Namely Valve.

Come on. Surely you can come up with an example better than Epic. They made the engine itself and we all know it was originally heavily optimized for the PC and 360. Don't remember the first year of Unreal Engine games on PS3? They aren't pretty.

Epic isn't that bad of an example I think, they even got sued for the underdeveloped state of their engine on the PS3 by 3rd party multi-platform developers. The engine now runs fine (with help), but according to developers they showed a lack of effort at first (and maybe still, as there is still a lot of potential by better utilizing the Cell's SPUs).

I hope Crytek will rival them and the CryEngine will meet expectations for multi-platform development and gets Epic off their butts.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

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MikeB said:
Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
I respect the devs the most who take advantage of their target hardware and modern technology (HDTV, surround sound, internet connectivity, etc) the most (like Blu-Ray and the Cell processor). So especially Naughty Dog.

I have far less respect for exclusive developers who built their games based on multi-platform game engines (so no real technical reason to not port their games onto all capable consoles). (for example Epic)

The least I respect one developing company which apparently lacks ambition to push their game engine towards new more competent challenges (changes which would only modernize and optimize their engine), this while talking pure trash regarding their true motives. Namely Valve.

Come on. Surely you can come up with an example better than Epic. They made the engine itself and we all know it was originally heavily optimized for the PC and 360. Don't remember the first year of Unreal Engine games on PS3? They aren't pretty.

Epic isn't that bad of an example I think, they even got sued for the underdeveloped state of their engine on the PS3 by 3rd party multi-platform developers. The engine now runs fine (with help), but according to developers they showed a lack of effort at first (and maybe still, as there is still a lot of potential by better utilizing the Cell's SPUs).

I hope Crytek will rival them and the CryEngine will meet expectations for multi-platform development and get Epic off their butts.

I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me, since you basically just repeated what I said. Your original point was to praise Naughty Dog for making an engine optimized for a specific platform, and I just pointed out that you're condemning Epic for doing the same thing. The reason the engine didn't work well on the PS3 is because it was optimized for the 360. So in essence Gears in 2006 would have been a sloppy mess on the PS3 like every other UE3 game was because it was optimized to run on the 360. From a technical standpoint, they had as much reason not to release Gears on the PS3, as Naughty Dog had for not releasing Uncharted on the 360. 

This is of course ignoring the fact that neither game can be ported over because of contractual obligations, so essentially using either as an example is a bit pointless. They're optimized because they can't go multiplatform, end of story. 



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Hus said:
dorbin2009 said:

..And so should you.

Lately I've gotten to thinking about the future of the gaming landscape and where we are headed in terms of the games available for each system. It seems a little archaic in 2009 with all the advancements in technology to just produce games for either the Wii, Xbox 360, or PS3. I realize that thinking this way calls into question some of my favorite developers (Valve and Bungie to name a couple), but with the quality multiplatform games being released every year, would it really take that much more effort to code the game for another system?

To me there is absolutely no proof that developing a game for multiple platforms reduces the quality of that game. When you look at Borderlands, AC2, DA:Origins, GTA4, and many others, can you really tell me that the game would have been so much better if they had just chosen one system to code it for? I think that a quality developer wouldn't need to restrict themselves in order to establish a fanbase.

Using exclusive games as ammo to why your system is better may be all well and good, but at the end of the day have you actually thought about /why/ that game is exclusive? Even quality projects on the Wii have impressive enough graphics where you would think, with enough time and energy, certain "HD" games could make the transition without a huge loss in quality.

I'm sure I am going to get enough "lol, Uncharted 2 would look like ass on the 360, noob" comments,  but considering the massive amount of people playing video games on each system, it just seems like the big three spend  far too much money gaining exclusives that could be used on actually improving the quality of their respective units.

Just looking at prospective trends in both gaming and computing (I.E. Motion Control/Cloud Computing) it seems that in the future, there really will be little to no excuse as to why a game can't be made, in some capacity, on all three systems. Yes, you could argue to me  that loyalty is important to you, but honestly, that developers "loyalty" is really just a very fat paycheck. And I personally would rather that money be spent on quality of hardware (Less RRoD, Cross game chat, 720/1080P on a system made in 2007) than securing that my precious Halo resides on only one system.

So have I accidently taken a bite out of a cookie laced with cocaine  and am speaking crazy talk, or do I have some valid points? Discuss.

No valid points.

MS buys exclusives, Sony for the most part makes their own while Nin preety much does it all them selfs. 

GTA4 was quite mediocre in my opinion, it could have been much much better.  A 360 ecxlusive GTA4 would ahve been a better game then the multi plat one. 

cough* cough* wtf 360 exclusive? its enough they slapped sony that they made it multiplat u shud have said ps3 exclusive im dissapointed :O



Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
I respect the devs the most who take advantage of their target hardware and modern technology (HDTV, surround sound, internet connectivity, etc) the most (like Blu-Ray and the Cell processor). So especially Naughty Dog.

I have far less respect for exclusive developers who built their games based on multi-platform game engines (so no real technical reason to not port their games onto all capable consoles). (for example Epic)

The least I respect one developing company which apparently lacks ambition to push their game engine towards new more competent challenges (changes which would only modernize and optimize their engine), this while talking pure trash regarding their true motives. Namely Valve.

Come on. Surely you can come up with an example better than Epic. They made the engine itself and we all know it was originally heavily optimized for the PC and 360. Don't remember the first year of Unreal Engine games on PS3? They aren't pretty.

Epic isn't that bad of an example I think, they even got sued for the underdeveloped state of their engine on the PS3 by 3rd party multi-platform developers. The engine now runs fine (with help), but according to developers they showed a lack of effort at first (and maybe still, as there is still a lot of potential by better utilizing the Cell's SPUs).

I hope Crytek will rival them and the CryEngine will meet expectations for multi-platform development and get Epic off their butts.

I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me, since you basically just repeated what I said. Your original point was to praise Naughty Dog for making an engine optimized for a specific platform, and I just pointed out that you're condemning Epic for doing the same thing.

No, Naughty Dog is an exclusive developer and Epic markets itself as providing multi-platform technology. From a technical perspective it makes no sense for Naughty Dog (even if they could) to make an Uncharted 3 for both the 360 and PS3 (the Cell processor with 8 processors vs 3 cores, Blu-Ray vs DVD, free online gaming for everyone with broadband internet, default harddrive to take advantage of, etc). It would lead to many sacrifices with regard to development.

Regarding Epic, they said they already maxed out the 360 with the original Gears of War, from a technical perspective it would make sense for them to tackly a more capable platform like the PS3 and really push forward. Of course I know Microsoft has a finger in the pie, but from a company like them it should at least be expected that they try to push their multi-platform technology to the best of their abilities for all supported platforms.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB said:
Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
I respect the devs the most who take advantage of their target hardware and modern technology (HDTV, surround sound, internet connectivity, etc) the most (like Blu-Ray and the Cell processor). So especially Naughty Dog.

I have far less respect for exclusive developers who built their games based on multi-platform game engines (so no real technical reason to not port their games onto all capable consoles). (for example Epic)

The least I respect one developing company which apparently lacks ambition to push their game engine towards new more competent challenges (changes which would only modernize and optimize their engine), this while talking pure trash regarding their true motives. Namely Valve.

Come on. Surely you can come up with an example better than Epic. They made the engine itself and we all know it was originally heavily optimized for the PC and 360. Don't remember the first year of Unreal Engine games on PS3? They aren't pretty.

Epic isn't that bad of an example I think, they even got sued for the underdeveloped state of their engine on the PS3 by 3rd party multi-platform developers. The engine now runs fine (with help), but according to developers they showed a lack of effort at first (and maybe still, as there is still a lot of potential by better utilizing the Cell's SPUs).

I hope Crytek will rival them and the CryEngine will meet expectations for multi-platform development and get Epic off their butts.

I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me, since you basically just repeated what I said. Your original point was to praise Naughty Dog for making an engine optimized for a specific platform, and I just pointed out that you're condemning Epic for doing the same thing.

No, Naughty Dog is an exclusive developer and Epic markets itself as providing multi-platform technology. From a technical perspective it makes no sense for Naughty Dog (even if they could) to make an Uncharted 3 for both the 360 and PS3 (the Cell processor with 8 processors vs 3 cores, Blu-Ray vs DVD, free online gaming for everyone with broadband internet, default harddrive to take advantage of, etc). It would lead to many sacrifices with regard to development.

Regarding Epic, they said they already maxed out the 360 with the original Gears of War, from a technical perspective it would make sense for them to tackly a more capable platform like the PS3 and really push forward. Of course I know Microsoft has a finger in the pie, but from a company like them it should at least be expected that they try to push their multi-platform technology to the best of their abilities for all supported platforms.

They did already. It's called Unreal Tournament III and it looks worse than Gears of War.

Your previous comments don't make much sense since any developer looking to create games on the most capable platform would undoubtedly choose the PC and not a console. As an open platform with a multitude of ways to develop for it, no closed, constricted console can compare. We're getting to the point here where I think you're just allowing your PS3 biases to shine through. It's clouding the legitimacy of your argument.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



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well

some teams develop the game on one system and port, a shitty port.

OT

i think Gurilla Games is the most overrated game developer out there. They created KZ2 a very GOOD FPS and that is it, the game had a huge budget so i think they are better at creating engines than creating games. Also KZ2 had alot of complains about its controls, I know its suppose to be a new game and not COD but i am sure a better developer would have came up with a better way to make their game feel different but accessible



 

here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay  here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay here to stay

Hus said:
dorbin2009 said:

..And so should you.

Lately I've gotten to thinking about the future of the gaming landscape and where we are headed in terms of the games available for each system. It seems a little archaic in 2009 with all the advancements in technology to just produce games for either the Wii, Xbox 360, or PS3. I realize that thinking this way calls into question some of my favorite developers (Valve and Bungie to name a couple), but with the quality multiplatform games being released every year, would it really take that much more effort to code the game for another system?

To me there is absolutely no proof that developing a game for multiple platforms reduces the quality of that game. When you look at Borderlands, AC2, DA:Origins, GTA4, and many others, can you really tell me that the game would have been so much better if they had just chosen one system to code it for? I think that a quality developer wouldn't need to restrict themselves in order to establish a fanbase.

Using exclusive games as ammo to why your system is better may be all well and good, but at the end of the day have you actually thought about /why/ that game is exclusive? Even quality projects on the Wii have impressive enough graphics where you would think, with enough time and energy, certain "HD" games could make the transition without a huge loss in quality.

I'm sure I am going to get enough "lol, Uncharted 2 would look like ass on the 360, noob" comments,  but considering the massive amount of people playing video games on each system, it just seems like the big three spend  far too much money gaining exclusives that could be used on actually improving the quality of their respective units.

Just looking at prospective trends in both gaming and computing (I.E. Motion Control/Cloud Computing) it seems that in the future, there really will be little to no excuse as to why a game can't be made, in some capacity, on all three systems. Yes, you could argue to me  that loyalty is important to you, but honestly, that developers "loyalty" is really just a very fat paycheck. And I personally would rather that money be spent on quality of hardware (Less RRoD, Cross game chat, 720/1080P on a system made in 2007) than securing that my precious Halo resides on only one system.

So have I accidently taken a bite out of a cookie laced with cocaine  and am speaking crazy talk, or do I have some valid points? Discuss.

No valid points.

MS buys exclusives, Sony for the most part makes their own while Nin preety much does it all them selfs. 

GTA4 was quite mediocre in my opinion, it could have been much much better.  A 360 PS3 ecxlusive GTA4 would ahve been a better game then the multi plat one. 

 

I say this because blu-ray has larger disc storage capacity, which would have enabled larger environments, content, etc.



Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
Onyxmeth said:
MikeB said:
I respect the devs the most who take advantage of their target hardware and modern technology (HDTV, surround sound, internet connectivity, etc) the most (like Blu-Ray and the Cell processor). So especially Naughty Dog.

I have far less respect for exclusive developers who built their games based on multi-platform game engines (so no real technical reason to not port their games onto all capable consoles). (for example Epic)

The least I respect one developing company which apparently lacks ambition to push their game engine towards new more competent challenges (changes which would only modernize and optimize their engine), this while talking pure trash regarding their true motives. Namely Valve.

Come on. Surely you can come up with an example better than Epic. They made the engine itself and we all know it was originally heavily optimized for the PC and 360. Don't remember the first year of Unreal Engine games on PS3? They aren't pretty.

Epic isn't that bad of an example I think, they even got sued for the underdeveloped state of their engine on the PS3 by 3rd party multi-platform developers. The engine now runs fine (with help), but according to developers they showed a lack of effort at first (and maybe still, as there is still a lot of potential by better utilizing the Cell's SPUs).

I hope Crytek will rival them and the CryEngine will meet expectations for multi-platform development and get Epic off their butts.

I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me, since you basically just repeated what I said. Your original point was to praise Naughty Dog for making an engine optimized for a specific platform, and I just pointed out that you're condemning Epic for doing the same thing.

No, Naughty Dog is an exclusive developer and Epic markets itself as providing multi-platform technology. From a technical perspective it makes no sense for Naughty Dog (even if they could) to make an Uncharted 3 for both the 360 and PS3 (the Cell processor with 8 processors vs 3 cores, Blu-Ray vs DVD, free online gaming for everyone with broadband internet, default harddrive to take advantage of, etc). It would lead to many sacrifices with regard to development.

Regarding Epic, they said they already maxed out the 360 with the original Gears of War, from a technical perspective it would make sense for them to tackly a more capable platform like the PS3 and really push forward. Of course I know Microsoft has a finger in the pie, but from a company like them it should at least be expected that they try to push their multi-platform technology to the best of their abilities for all supported platforms.

They did already. It's called Unreal Tournament III and it looks worse than Gears of War.

Your previous comments don't make much sense since any developer looking to create games on the most capable platform would undoubtedly choose the PC and not a console. As an open platform with a multitude of ways to develop for it, no closed, constricted console can compare. We're getting to the point here where I think you're just allowing your PS3 biases to shine through. It's clouding the legitimacy of your argument.

I don't think UT3 is the best of their ability, although I do acknowledge they (and of course Sony) deserve some praise for adding mod and keyboard support to this game on the PS3 (they are no Valve, for sure), it's very much a PC centric title.

And regarding gaming, many are of the opinion games consoles are far more capable with regard to gaming than a Windows PC. For example it's far easier and better to use within your living room and for living room multi-player (for example you can connect up to 8 controllers on the PS3). One friend, a PC gamer, stated PC gaming provides far more an anti-social gaming experience.

Also there's the issue of optimization, due to so many different potential configurations and Windows being inefficient to begin with, you will never get close to seeing what your hardware is really capable of. x86 assembler is also plain horrible, the architecture is just so antiqued. A games console provides developers a great clean oppertunity to fully explore true potential.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB said:
Onyxmeth said:

They did already. It's called Unreal Tournament III and it looks worse than Gears of War.

Your previous comments don't make much sense since any developer looking to create games on the most capable platform would undoubtedly choose the PC and not a console. As an open platform with a multitude of ways to develop for it, no closed, constricted console can compare. We're getting to the point here where I think you're just allowing your PS3 biases to shine through. It's clouding the legitimacy of your argument.

I don't think UT3 is the best of their ability, although I do acknowledge they (and of course Sony) deserve some praise for adding mod and keyboard support to this game on the PS3 (they are no Valve, for sure), it's very much a PC centric title.

And regarding gaming, many are of the opinion games consoles are far more capable with regard to gaming than a Windows PC. For example it's far easier and better to use within your living room and for living room multi-player (for example you can connect up to 8 controllers on the PS3). One friend, a PC gamer, stated PC gaming provides far more an anti-social gaming experience.

Also there's the issue of optimization, due to so many different potential configurations and Windows being inefficient to begin with, you will never get close to seeing what your hardware is really capable of. x86 assembler is also plain horrible, the architecture is just so antiqued. A games console provides developers a great clean oppertunity to fully explore true potential.

You see? You've basically conceded your argument about respect for a developer going for the challenge by spending this topic talking about the business aspect of it all. A person concerned with the technical aspects behind a developers' choice to get the most out of the hardware would not be concerned with anti-social gaming, PC optimization or anything else that would affect sales. They would be concerned with one thing and one thing only, getting the most oomph in the game, regardless of sales. By bringing sales potential into the argument, you give more credence to the argument that Epic is to be respected for making an engine that can reach so many gamers at once and still function at a high level.

Can't have it both ways pal. Pick your argument and stick with it.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



@ PDF

From a consumer standpoint the only beneficial reason of having multiple consoles is that they compete with each other.


They still compete in pricing and everything else. Imagine if all the games we have today need to be able to be ported to the PS2/Wii.....

Different hardware suits different kinds of people. People who want the cheapest entry pricing 'new-gen' console can get a XBox 360, someone who's still on a SDTV and wants access to the cheapest and most varied games collection can get an even cheaper PS2, someone who mainly wants cute games for their kids to play or waggle out of the box can get a Wii, people who love high definition movies and the technically most impressive gaming can get a PS3, etc.

So lots of choice and exclusives are your best chance to really show off your system of choice.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales