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Forums - PC Discussion - 200,000 PC Gamers Signed Petition Against MW2

STEKSTAV on 24 November 2009

Well i was talking about MW2. But as for piracy, Demi God was a giveaway basicly. Didnt include any DRM and Gamestop released the game a week prior to official release date, further crippling the game as servers crashed due to the numbers of people trying to connect to their servers on pirated copies.

It was a failed business model from the start.. not sure if that adds anything to what you're talking about. And i really dont care.



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Ail on 24 November 2009
STEKSTAV said:
Well i was talking about MW2. But as for piracy, Demi God was a giveaway basicly. Didnt include any DRM and Gamestop released the game a week prior to official release date, further crippling the game as servers crashed due to the numbers of people trying to connect to their servers on pirated copies.

It was a failed business model from the start.. not sure if that adds anything to what you're talking about. And i really dont care.

I thought every PC gamer agreed that DRM was the devil and should never be included in any game as it 'harms legit customer but does not hinder piracy'.



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

vlad321 on 24 November 2009
Ail said:
vlad321 said:
Ail said:
vlad321 said:
STEKSTAV said:
It was also available for digital download a week before release.. not on the PC though.

That too.

The game only released on the PC, so not sure what that comment is about...

It meas people didn't have to wait a week to get their hands on the game legally. Another failure of publishers.

It means before quoting someone and agreeing with him you might want to check he's actually talking of the same thing you are, the dude isn't even talking about Demi God...

Actually Demigod was indeed up on torrent sites about a week and a half early. Also yes, DRM is retarded and it doesn't do anythign at all to stop piracy. Only the publishers seem to be clueless about it as well, just as they are clueless on how to actually make money, Valve even had a nice key note speech about this stuff a year or so ago.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

jefforange89 on 25 November 2009
toastboy44562 said:
im glad they removed deticated servers, it'll turn the people that pay for the game and want deticated servers against the pirates that made us remove it. therfore starting a war and killing of the pirates...

lol, not really.  All they did was lose the respect the community had for them.



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Jereel Hunter on 25 November 2009
shio said:
Ail said:

Last time I gave you the pirated numbers for DemiGod on the first week of the release you hardly shut up, you just made up a bunch of excuses....

Just go back to playing your pirated games and stop trolling this forum...

The only visible impact from pirates in Demigod was that they overloaded the servers. We cannot know how many sales were lost on Demigod.
And? That causes a financial impact to the developer. Even if lost sales were minimal, they were eating up bandwidth, they were forcing them to put more servers online, and they were negatively effecting the game experience of paying/potentially paying customers. That means the developers were hurt by MORE than lost sales.

Even if piracy rate was 99.99%, it doesn't matter. Why? It's because as long as PC games keep selling and are successful, they will still be made. What's the difference if the piracy rate is 99% or 1% if games sell the same?

It does matter. Because while a handful of PC games and developers do awesome, if the piracy rat eis 99.99%, everything without "Call of Duty", "Craft" or "SIMs" in the title winds up just barely breaking even. Yes, massive phenoms do just fine. Everyone else, not so much.

What we do know is that PC gaming revenue keeps increasing every year, and healthily. PC gaming revenue increased 18%, despite the decrease of retail. PC games are also more profitable due to digital distribution and other venues. And this year PC seems to be increasing while consoles are going to decline revenue in 2009.

Ever looked into how those stats break down? Or even just walk into a store and check out the PC game racks? PC games have tons of 2-3 year old games taking up most of the space, and barely any new titles. Where are all these gamign revenue increases coming from? Oh, WoW added 2 million sales? Anothe rmillion regular subscribers, and 8 million sales of their latest expansion? Oh, fantastic. I guess the market is healthy.

Also, where on earth do you get your data? Console sales, software and hardware, have been doing great - especially compared to their PC counterparts. PC sales only excel in areas consoles pretty much CAN'T. Good MMORPGs and RTS games.

 

 



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shio on 25 November 2009
Jereel Hunter said:
shio said:
Ail said:

Last time I gave you the pirated numbers for DemiGod on the first week of the release you hardly shut up, you just made up a bunch of excuses....

Just go back to playing your pirated games and stop trolling this forum...

The only visible impact from pirates in Demigod was that they overloaded the servers. We cannot know how many sales were lost on Demigod.
And? That causes a financial impact to the developer. Even if lost sales were minimal, they were eating up bandwidth, they were forcing them to put more servers online, and they were negatively effecting the game experience of paying/potentially paying customers. That means the developers were hurt by MORE than lost sales.

Even if piracy rate was 99.99%, it doesn't matter. Why? It's because as long as PC games keep selling and are successful, they will still be made. What's the difference if the piracy rate is 99% or 1% if games sell the same?

It does matter. Because while a handful of PC games and developers do awesome, if the piracy rat eis 99.99%, everything without "Call of Duty", "Craft" or "SIMs" in the title winds up just barely breaking even. Yes, massive phenoms do just fine. Everyone else, not so much.

What we do know is that PC gaming revenue keeps increasing every year, and healthily. PC gaming revenue increased 18%, despite the decrease of retail. PC games are also more profitable due to digital distribution and other venues. And this year PC seems to be increasing while consoles are going to decline revenue in 2009.

Ever looked into how those stats break down? Or even just walk into a store and check out the PC game racks? PC games have tons of 2-3 year old games taking up most of the space, and barely any new titles. Where are all these gamign revenue increases coming from? Oh, WoW added 2 million sales? Anothe rmillion regular subscribers, and 8 million sales of their latest expansion? Oh, fantastic. I guess the market is healthy.

Also, where on earth do you get your data? Console sales, software and hardware, have been doing great - especially compared to their PC counterparts. PC sales only excel in areas consoles pretty much CAN'T. Good MMORPGs and RTS games.

 

 

You're making little sense. I meant that if a game sells 100k copies with a 1% is pretty much no different than it selling 100k with a 99% piracy rate. The money is the same, the profit is the same, devs will get paid the same. It's doesn't matter in the real picture. Publishers want sales numbers, not piracy numbers.

And the data I got it from was straight from NPD and VGChartz, who are claiming that console revenue has been declining YoY.

Many PC games have been selling great, and they're not from the big studios. Sins of a Solar Empire has sold over 1 million, this is a game which was made by 4 guys and had a budget of less than 1 million. A great example.



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Ail on 26 November 2009
shio said:
Jereel Hunter said:
shio said:
Ail said:

Last time I gave you the pirated numbers for DemiGod on the first week of the release you hardly shut up, you just made up a bunch of excuses....

Just go back to playing your pirated games and stop trolling this forum...

The only visible impact from pirates in Demigod was that they overloaded the servers. We cannot know how many sales were lost on Demigod.
And? That causes a financial impact to the developer. Even if lost sales were minimal, they were eating up bandwidth, they were forcing them to put more servers online, and they were negatively effecting the game experience of paying/potentially paying customers. That means the developers were hurt by MORE than lost sales.

Even if piracy rate was 99.99%, it doesn't matter. Why? It's because as long as PC games keep selling and are successful, they will still be made. What's the difference if the piracy rate is 99% or 1% if games sell the same?

It does matter. Because while a handful of PC games and developers do awesome, if the piracy rat eis 99.99%, everything without "Call of Duty", "Craft" or "SIMs" in the title winds up just barely breaking even. Yes, massive phenoms do just fine. Everyone else, not so much.

What we do know is that PC gaming revenue keeps increasing every year, and healthily. PC gaming revenue increased 18%, despite the decrease of retail. PC games are also more profitable due to digital distribution and other venues. And this year PC seems to be increasing while consoles are going to decline revenue in 2009.

Ever looked into how those stats break down? Or even just walk into a store and check out the PC game racks? PC games have tons of 2-3 year old games taking up most of the space, and barely any new titles. Where are all these gamign revenue increases coming from? Oh, WoW added 2 million sales? Anothe rmillion regular subscribers, and 8 million sales of their latest expansion? Oh, fantastic. I guess the market is healthy.

Also, where on earth do you get your data? Console sales, software and hardware, have been doing great - especially compared to their PC counterparts. PC sales only excel in areas consoles pretty much CAN'T. Good MMORPGs and RTS games.

 

 

You're making little sense. I meant that if a game sells 100k copies with a 1% is pretty much no different than it selling 100k with a 99% piracy rate. The money is the same, the profit is the same, devs will get paid the same. It's doesn't matter in the real picture. Publishers want sales numbers, not piracy numbers.

And the data I got it from was straight from NPD and VGChartz, who are claiming that console revenue has been declining YoY.

Many PC games have been selling great, and they're not from the big studios. Sins of a Solar Empire has sold over 1 million, this is a game which was made by 4 guys and had a budget of less than 1 million. A great example.

 

This is a game that was released 3-4 years ago too.

NPD is saying console sales is declining in 2009. So what about PC games released in 2009 ?

 

Now to answer your other question about piracy, lets do some maths.

For a game to sell 100k with 99% piracy rate that means 10 millions people are actually interested in the game...

And somehow I don't think that's the case for every PC game :p

Now if the piracy rate is only 1%, roughly 101k people were interested in the game.

See the difference now ? 

So you are the one making little sense...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

shio on 30 November 2009
Ail said:
shio said:

You're making little sense. I meant that if a game sells 100k copies with a 1% is pretty much no different than it selling 100k with a 99% piracy rate. The money is the same, the profit is the same, devs will get paid the same. It's doesn't matter in the real picture. Publishers want sales numbers, not piracy numbers.

And the data I got it from was straight from NPD and VGChartz, who are claiming that console revenue has been declining YoY.

Many PC games have been selling great, and they're not from the big studios. Sins of a Solar Empire has sold over 1 million, this is a game which was made by 4 guys and had a budget of less than 1 million. A great example.

This is a game that was released 3-4 years ago too.

NPD is saying console sales is declining in 2009. So what about PC games released in 2009 ?

 

Now to answer your other question about piracy, lets do some maths.

For a game to sell 100k with 99% piracy rate that means 10 millions people are actually interested in the game...

And somehow I don't think that's the case for every PC game :p

Now if the piracy rate is only 1%, roughly 101k people were interested in the game.

See the difference now ? 

So you are the one making little sense...

You still make no sense. So a game is less successful because it sells the same in a harder environment due to rampant piracy?! How a game that sells 150k with 99% piracy rate compare with a game that sold 100k with 1% piracy rate?

Explain this to me. Game A sells as good as Game B, but Game A was in a tougher environment with rampant piracy, while Game B sold the same but in a place where there was no piracy. Who do you think deserves to be congratulated more?

 

On another note, the petition now has over 230k signatures!! Will it reach 250k? We shall see, but MW2's PC sales have declined so much that they're laughable right now. On amazon.com the PC version was around 10th in Game Best Sellers, but now it just dropped below 150th!!! While both console versions are still in top 20.

The fastest decline in sales I've ever seen in a PC game.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?dedis4mw

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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NJ5 on 30 November 2009
Ail said:
STEKSTAV said:
Well i was talking about MW2. But as for piracy, Demi God was a giveaway basicly. Didnt include any DRM and Gamestop released the game a week prior to official release date, further crippling the game as servers crashed due to the numbers of people trying to connect to their servers on pirated copies.

It was a failed business model from the start.. not sure if that adds anything to what you're talking about. And i really dont care.

I thought every PC gamer agreed that DRM was the devil and should never be included in any game as it 'harms legit customer but does not hinder piracy'.

That's absolutely right. To the point that some legit customers actually download the pirated versions after buying the game, as the pirated versions don't contain any annoying and performance-hitting DRM.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Jereel Hunter on 30 November 2009
shio said:
Jereel Hunter said:
shio said:
Ail said:

Last time I gave you the pirated numbers for DemiGod on the first week of the release you hardly shut up, you just made up a bunch of excuses....

Just go back to playing your pirated games and stop trolling this forum...

The only visible impact from pirates in Demigod was that they overloaded the servers. We cannot know how many sales were lost on Demigod.
And? That causes a financial impact to the developer. Even if lost sales were minimal, they were eating up bandwidth, they were forcing them to put more servers online, and they were negatively effecting the game experience of paying/potentially paying customers. That means the developers were hurt by MORE than lost sales.

Even if piracy rate was 99.99%, it doesn't matter. Why? It's because as long as PC games keep selling and are successful, they will still be made. What's the difference if the piracy rate is 99% or 1% if games sell the same?

It does matter. Because while a handful of PC games and developers do awesome, if the piracy rat eis 99.99%, everything without "Call of Duty", "Craft" or "SIMs" in the title winds up just barely breaking even. Yes, massive phenoms do just fine. Everyone else, not so much.

What we do know is that PC gaming revenue keeps increasing every year, and healthily. PC gaming revenue increased 18%, despite the decrease of retail. PC games are also more profitable due to digital distribution and other venues. And this year PC seems to be increasing while consoles are going to decline revenue in 2009.

Ever looked into how those stats break down? Or even just walk into a store and check out the PC game racks? PC games have tons of 2-3 year old games taking up most of the space, and barely any new titles. Where are all these gamign revenue increases coming from? Oh, WoW added 2 million sales? Another million regular subscribers, and 8 million sales of their latest expansion? Oh, fantastic. I guess the market is healthy.

Also, where on earth do you get your data? Console sales, software and hardware, have been doing great - especially compared to their PC counterparts. PC sales only excel in areas consoles pretty much CAN'T. Good MMORPGs and RTS games.

 

 

You're making little sense. I meant that if a game sells 100k copies with a 1% is pretty much no different than it selling 100k with a 99% piracy rate. The money is the same, the profit is the same, devs will get paid the same. It's doesn't matter in the real picture. Publishers want sales numbers, not piracy numbers.

And the data I got it from was straight from NPD and VGChartz, who are claiming that console revenue has been declining YoY.

Many PC games have been selling great, and they're not from the big studios. Sins of a Solar Empire has sold over 1 million, this is a game which was made by 4 guys and had a budget of less than 1 million. A great example.

Sins is a great example. And if you go over various forums like these, it gets listed a lot, because it's the ultra-rare exception, not the rule.

As for console sales reports declining, it makes sense. We're in a brutal recession, YoY numbers in most industries are down.  But that doesn't change the fact that with the exception of a couple genres - MMORPGs and RTS games, like I mentioned, console game sales usually dominate their PC counterparts.