all of christianity would get destroyed in a debate agains a liberal society, more so, i can formulate mor agains points to protestanism than to catholism

No, not really. Catholocism has far more going against it than protestanism has ever had for it. Furthermore, it really comes down (as others have said) to who is debating. If you had Ravi Zacharias in for the Christians versus someone like Dawkins, it would most likely favor protestants.

Catholocism (even speaking from a Christian point of view, as much as I love Christianity) has always been a blight on Christianity. Their list of crimes against humanity may only be surpassed by communism and Islam. Protestants haven't murdered people in droves like the Catholics ever had.

I take it you have a sticky keyboard across "E, R and T", that happened to me once lol.

Anyway, Christianity can handle itself in a debate in many cases. But the thing is you find that Christianity spends as much time bickering against one another than they do anyone else, so it is hard for them to argue as a whole on a topic.

If Christianity was one religion then it would be a big force to reckon with. I think it would be hard to win a debate against.

...

(I'm so sure I was clear there, hopefully you know what I mean lol.)

In another note:

I'm not understanding why the median age of the debaters has a 20 year gap between the catholics and atheists. Anne whats-her-name looks like she has one foot in the grave.

At any rate, the opening statements by Mr. Hitchens are dead on. It's very hard to argue Catholicism is such a force for good when you look at the countries where it is most prominent (South America, Africa) and see the poverty that has taken root in their nations.

I think Islam and Catholicism are actually pretty equal in terms of crimes against humanity. Also, you forgot facism, that one was pretty big...

I don't understand the argument of your 3rd paragraph.  Are we basing goodness with wealth?  Perhaps that is where faith is most needed?  There might be a correlation with the downtrodden and faith.  Perhaps that is why they are most prominent there.

However, going back to the topic on hand, I myself believe Catholicism (as well as all different beliefs) is a force for good, its just not perfect.  There will always be a negative due to individuals different mindsets and bias.

20 years ago, the Catholic faith was held in high regard.  Now they seem to be mired in Child Molestation issues, rigidity in doctrine, and hippocracy.  Just like any organization that has become too large, scandals and corruption ensue.  I'm guessing its human nature and not the structure thats at issue here.

caz -

My argument about South America and Africa is that if Catholocism was a true force for good....Wouldn't we see reductions in poverty? After all, the sum of the Bible can be found in the teachings of Jesus concerning helping others, and holiness. Given the results of the Catholic church...It's hard to say that they've been an overall force for good.

Of course, maybe I'm biased. They killed a lot of protestants because we thought differently.

the ku kux klan is a protestan organization. black people weren't alowed into protestan churches even in the religious revolutions america underwent. some may defend martin luther stating he wanted a religious cleansing, and to get married like many said, he had 6 children, a gigantic number for a decadent europe. nazi germany was a protestan nation, until hitler stated "One is either a cristian or a german"  and capitalism, protestanism has a capitalist approach that is repugnant to my view, they teach one is failing god by not payin the "tax"(the thing were you give 10% of your money each month) gos does not need money, why the fuck the pastor has a homer and i'm struggling to feed my children?

supernatural healing, lol. they say homosexuality is a demon(atleast catholics dont) they say masturbation is a demon. theres so may wrong things, but protestanism, as it is not a single entity like catholism is, always save its self. btw martin luther profecied the world would end in his lifespan, and the asembly of god churces stated the world would end around 1924.

Fair enough for your point of view.  Appreciate the biased sentimentality.

I just wanted to say, just like for any religious or charity organization, poverty cannot be overcome just by a few.  Politics, corporations, organizations, social systems, education, economic systems, etc. play a very huge part in either helping or condoning poverty.

I don't think we can blame Catholicism for the poverty and lack of help in regards to poverty in Africa or South America.  To put things in perspective, the Western World has tried helping Africa for decades, and its still where it is.  I still believe, its not a sole system at fault here, its human nature that is.

Here's the thing. Im catholic and there are a lot of things Id like to say, but for some reason, I hate debating on forums, cause I hate having to type long sentences and paragraphs.

So, Im gonna be short and blunt, lol:

@mrstickball - protestants have killd plenty of catholics in history. It goes both ways. The whole poverty/religion thing has to do with a lot of different issues, so for you to say that my religion is bad because the countries where it is the majority is simplistic and wrong. Not to mention that for hundreds of years, the powerful Europe was completely catholic.

@Kaz - Thanks you for saying some of the things. there are a lot of misconceptions about the Church. Specially when it comes to science. I know youd still say its bad overall cause you are not catholic, but it nice to see you are not falling prey to some of these misconceptions.

Damn, this is getting long.

To simplify, I will say this - You are all talking about a 2000 year old organization that was led by imperfect people.

Do you really expect that it would not have blemishes in its past?

However, we also have thousands upond thousands of people who did just the opposite.
Look at development of science, medicine, philosophy, society that came with The Catholic Church.

Much of our judicial and moral system is based on catholic values. Life is sacred (human rights), right of property, charity, etc.

Im gonna stop cause Im doing what I said I wouldnt.

So, please dony answer this or I will have to do this again, and i dont want to, lol.

PS - @badgenome - While I disagree with a lot of things with Christopher Hitchens, yes, he is one amazing debater. A lot better than Dawkins.