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Forums - Gaming - So you got interested in kingdom hearts because?

Xoj on 10 November 2009
c0rd said:

So, is the thread being made in order to *prove* more people bought KH due to FF characters?

Look. This forum does not represent the majority - far, far from it. Here's one example: more people on this site own NMH, than Wii Fit. Here there are ~660 NMH owners, and 600 Wii Fit owners.

In reality, Wii Fit has sold about 50x more than NMH. Basically, this community cannot be used as representative of the majority, so this "poll" is meaningless, even if all of us bought the game because we're Square fans.

u guys all saying thing like you totally believe it's like that no questions asked, yet don't show me numbers (good luck trying to find them).

Kingdom Hearts has never sold less than its FF competitors in America. Its audience is quite obviously larger than the normal FF/Square fanbase, because it beats all of its top games on every platform (KH > FFX, KH:CoM > FFTA, KH 358/2 > FF3).

You brought up Japan sales, and I think we've conceded the series being driven by its FF fans there (though this is less important, since America is KH's main region). Still, you'd need to explain why it sells far less than FF in their region, while they're so much higher here.

Actually, if you think the game is selling so well due to its FF fanservice (going as far as saying it was avoided due to Disney), tell me this - why is Dissidia doing so much worse than KH 358/2, or even Crisis Core in America? The opposite situation is occurring in Japan.

(edit) Oh, one more thing. FF fans avoiding the game due to Disney's presence only hurts your argument. For every FF fan disinterested in the game, it takes another Disney/non-FF fan to get the game's sales to where they are.

 

 

(edit)
...

I'll add something on topic. I got it because I'm a Square fan. I'm neutral to most things Disney, though I do like some of their worlds a lot (Aladdin, Little Mermaid). Similarly, I'll be picking Epic Mickey up because it's a high budget western game with Warren Spector behind it (Mickey being cool and visiting old Disney worlds are a bonus). I'm a gamer, so the main reasons behind my purchases will be game related.

the ones saying FF fans are not interesting in kh by it it's soriku and kaz, i say the other way around.

u are comparing com to tactics advance which was strategy RPG, niche genre?, 358/2 to FF3 which it's snes old remade come on. and FFX sold more worlwide.

japan sales are revelant also it's second highest region and it's a million selling region for both games, also japan sales here don't include the final mix versions ;). and re-releases. like the pack for trinity master pieces.

my point it's FF fans buy the game, mainly because it square enix with mainline ff characters on it. they say we are a minority but then japan, others, make their point look spotty.

also don't mix marketing, with demography, companies can market the game who ever they want, LBP was market casual, but the games was way more complex of what they showed.

 

even if u were right for america, the game also sold in europe and japan making things tricky for both of our arguments. thats why i don't label as a whole american/casual game, but rather a bridge game like LBP.

@soriku, simple, they are are more Disney worlds than FF worlds, FF world it's one, and they focus 1-2 to each world, one of them being FF World.

most of the time it's sora, rikku, kairi, goofy donald. even mickey sometimes  it's just shown at the end of the trailer for 2 seconds.

there were 2 commercials used one with mainly sora and nomura characters and one with mainly disney characters.

 



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.jayderyu on 10 November 2009

I got into KH with 357/2 days. Please don't hurt me :\



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

c0rd on 10 November 2009

I compared CoM to FFTA because it was Square's best selling GBA game. See here. Ditto with FF3 - in Japan the remake is about double 358/2 sales.

I'm aware the games do still sell in Eu / Japan. Factoring them in, the Square fanbase may outnumber those buying it for Disney.

However, when over 60% of the fanbase is in America, the situation still favors the platforms we argue for. For example, while the Wii may do worse in Japan as opposed to the PSP, the difference is miniscule compared to how much worse the PSP version will do here, in America, Wii territory. That's the theory, anway.



NoCtiS_NoX on 10 November 2009

Can you people please stop arguing about this. If you think it's sold because of Disney then your wrong. If you think it's because of FF fans you're wrong too. It's the combination of the two, mainly Squaresoft fans and Disney fans.
Don't underestimate Squaresoft. Squaresoft has a loyal fanbase because of the PS1 generation so there's a lot of them but don't also underestimate Disney too. That's all.



Xoj on 10 November 2009
c0rd said:

I compared CoM to FFTA because it was Square's best selling GBA game. See here. Ditto with FF3 - in Japan the remake is about double 358/2 sales.

I'm aware the games do still sell in Eu / Japan. Factoring them in, the Square fanbase may outnumber those buying it for Disney.

However, when over 60% of the fanbase is in America, the situation still favors the platforms we argue for. For example, while the Wii may do worse in Japan as opposed to the PSP, the difference is miniscule compared to how much worse the PSP version will do here, in America, Wii territory. That's the theory, anway.

those 60% still have square enix gamers and a good amount that sir, it's my point. Wii RPG in america haven't done great. crystal chronicles releases we have nothing to compare.

 



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c0rd on 10 November 2009

That's my point, though. The Wii's RPG performance is irrelevant when more people in America buy KH for Disney. KH is bigger than FF here.

FF Crystal Chronicles will be a bad example. The game has little in common with KH.

If we're waiting on game sales, there's two we should be watching. Epic Mickey, which will sell plenty in America - far more than any RPG on the PSP here. It'll show there are lots of gamers on the Wii willing to buy a high budget Disney title. Then KH:BBS, which will sell less than 358/2 worldwide, despite being more hyped, getting better reviews, and selling better in Japan. It'll highlight the importance of America's sales (in other words, Disney driven sales).

This is what I predict. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.



Kasz216 on 10 November 2009
Xoj said:
Soriku said:

Uh...why would you expect a KH side story on a different system than the one KH1 came out on to sell better than the first main title? Re: CoM was remade for the PS2 as a cash in, otherwise it wouldn't have taken them years to get to it. They didn't even bother lip syncing it right for the Western release unlike KH2. Hell, KH1 came out early in PS2's life while KH2 released when it was over 100 mil and still sold worse than KH1 so your userbase argument goes flying out the window. BBS isn't even going to come close to KH1 or KH2 numbers and that's the closest game to a main series KH so far, though for more reasons than it just not being a main title.

I mean...this argument is getting pretty sad at this point because it's just so easy to counter.

BBS won't be as huge but because of the piracy on the PSP not because the userbase.

same for 358/2 days, its on 100 million handheld full of kids, but it's not selling mainly because of the piracy, similar to KH2 it sold less due piracy.

yet the ps2 wasn't as easy to hack as the PSP or DS are.

as RE:COM Was released in japan with final mix kh2, a year after release of the american KH.

Crisis core sold over 2 million on the PSP, even if didn't have FF7 in it (until recently PSN Release), low user than the PS1 and high piracy and it's not mainline game. but a prequel.

u haven't counter anything :)

@kaz, my point was many bought kingdom hearts because it was FF game made by square enix, and my thread proves my point, now u move the goal saying this is a heavy otaku forum of niche RPGs.

yet KH it's not a niche RPG, it  have mainline FF series characters in it. then you say it doesnt matter cuz it "marketing" was very disney therefore it's for casuals, i reply it had cloud and sephiroth fighting. while the marketing was very disney, the gameplay, story are not- they are drives modes, decks combinations, skills, many equipments, summons. plus a hardcore fight with sephiroth in the coliseum.

u consider mario a casual game? LBP? at most u can say they are bridge titles, liked by both.

FF and KH are similar in that aspect. while the core gamers love it, it got the attention of certain casuals players but casuals are not the main mover. in contrast to game like wii fit.

u guys all saying thing like you totally believe it's like that no questions asked, yet don't show me numbers (good luck trying to find them).

and talk about marketing, and kids demography, ignoring all FF RPG players, it's huge amount. and kh was a new game at the time, avoid by many because it was disney, until it got popular way after release.

yet com, even with 2 those things it's not on par, with mainlines kh,it should sold at least 3 million having all the ingredients to sell. userbase, casual marketing, demography.


Wait.  So your saying you DON'T think this site is biased towards RPG fans rather then Disney fans?

Once again. 

The game was mostly bought by Disney fans.  I've already showed you actual data that supports my arguement.

You've shown... nothing.

 

Once again.  The sales paterns of KH1 excludes Final Fantasy fans being a main driver of sales.

 

KH1 sales were NOT frontloaded.  It sold like a New IP.  Ergo it didn't sell like a Finalfantasy title or spinoff.  Ergo final fantasy hype was NOT a main driver of sales.

It's fairly simple.

 

KH1 sold 400K first week and went on to sell 1.24.  Even in japan it wasn't Final Fantasy based... where Disney holds much less sway then it does in other regions.

It's not like NONE of the sales went to Final Fantasy fans.  However that amount was not a main driver.  2.5 million is a VERY high estimate.  I'd be surprised if it was anymore then 1 million.



Kasz216 on 10 November 2009

Basically if you want to prove it's highly Final Fantasy based. You have to explain why... even in Japan it doesn't fit Final Fantasy sales patterns.

Both mainline and spinoff Final Fantasy games are much more front loaded. However KH has a much more backloaded "casual" selling pattern.



Xoj on 10 November 2009
Kasz216 said:
Basically if you want to prove it's highly Final Fantasy based. You have to explain why... even in Japan it doesn't fit Final Fantasy sales patterns.

Both mainline and spinoff Final Fantasy games are much more front loaded. However KH has a much more backloaded "casual" selling pattern.

what are you talking about like any japanese game, it's front loaded, huge first week but small legs.

and in japan it got a final mix version like FF X and X-2 international versions.



Kasz216 on 10 November 2009
Xoj said:
Kasz216 said:
Basically if you want to prove it's highly Final Fantasy based. You have to explain why... even in Japan it doesn't fit Final Fantasy sales patterns.

Both mainline and spinoff Final Fantasy games are much more front loaded. However KH has a much more backloaded "casual" selling pattern.

what are you talking about like any japanese game, it's front loaded, huge first week but small legs.

 

KH1 sold 415K Week 1.

Sold 1.25M total in Japan.

http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=1129&region=All


So... about 1/3rd of it's sales were frontloaded.  That means 2/3rds were do to legs.


When it comes to Final Fantasy games and their spinoffs it's the exact opposite infact.

Final Fantasy games thend to do 2/3rds of their sales week 1 in Japan.

 

The sales patterns don't gel... at all... and are exact opposites.