The 360 launched $299 - $399

nightsurge said:

Yes, but then why did you try to claim they were losing money when they weren't?  FUD.

They are losing money on every arcade, they are making money on every other unit, and on total sales. Not FUD.

You don't have any proof at all of that.  You purposely worded it to make it seem like MS was losing money overall.  FUD.

Walmart is not "giving away $100" because they are forcing you to return this money to THEM. 

And losing 100$ worth of product.

But most likely gaining more than $100 worth of profits over time from that sale and customers.

Also, they did this already with the PS3 twice in one year when the PS3 saw its 2008 sales surges. 

Also, the surges were less than 100k units, AND had two big releases at the same time. MGS4 and LBP/motorstorm/Resistance 2 (within 10 days of the second sale)

That's because they were still $400.  When its on a $199 product it has a much bigger impact as is evident by all Walmarts being instantly sold out.

Of these deals, all are price drops, EXCEPT the 360.  It is a gift card promotion because it is their loss leader.  They get people in there wanting 360's and then those people use the gift card to buy other items. 

But they aren't making profit on the giftcard sales.

They are getting shoppers in their stores to buy products along with this 360 deal.  If you buy an Arcade for this deal, you'll likely use the giftcard on other products they sell, and keep buying stuff like software, accessories, HDTVs and stuff from Walmart in the future because of this deal.

There is nothing special about these consoles.  They are brand new jasper models manufactured in July or later of 2009.  They even have the newest packaging.  This is not being funded by MS just as the deals with the PS3's last year was not funded by Sony. 

You don't have proof of that. Neither do I. But evidence strongly suggests that these deals were made available for Sony as a way to boost those game sales.

I do have proof of this.  I have 2 of these consoles in my possession.  They have the brand new packaging, HDMI slot, newest power supply, a Manufacturing date of 7/09/2009, a power rating of 12.1A.  And by your own comment, perhaps this was put in place to boost Modern Warfare 2 sales on 360 in the US which it very likely will.

So, while the other "price drops" are of older products being discontinued, this is NOT a price drop on the 360 so it doesn't really apply to that deal.  All the other deals were one day only, yet this one for the 360 + Gift Card is a full week, just like the PS3 deals Walmart had!

No, they aren't "being discontinued" they've BEEN discontinued for over a year now. These are not price drops, they are clearances. They are trying to make some, any, money back on bad investments. This offer does not qualify as that. Additionally, the ps3 deals were a minimum 4 per store, and this deal is a minimum 10 per store. Seeing as how america ps3 sales did about 100k more than usual (I'm not going to figure in the release of mGS4, even though it contributed to higher sales), the 360 should sell a bit more than twice that amount. 220k additional units. Walmart is giving away 22M $ in giftcards. Because Walmart already gets things for the bare minimum from most companies, if somebody buys the system and uses the giftcard to buy stuff, they are effectively losing 100$ per console save for the margin on the products that are purchased. In terms of the console and game sales, that would roughly be 15-20%, so about 80%.

They are losing about 16-18M with this deal.

Have any proof that all these products have been discontinued over a year ago?  That laptop, TV, etc were all stopped in production as of a year ago?  Not likely.  Am awaiting your proof of all those deals being nothing but last minute clearances.

Yes, flawed reasoning, or perhaps you just don't understand the situation.  There was no $50 price cut.  That was a one week long rebate offer.

http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=1618

That was an $80 price cut that launched the 360 to overtake the entire PS3 1.2 million lead for that year and go on to outsell it overall for the year by 800k.  An effective outselling the PS3 by 2 million in 3 months.  That price drop kept the 360 above the PS3 for an entire year in sales and took the lead up to its highest point ever.  I'm so glad you failed so miserably with that link right there!

  Also, the 360 Arcade, if it dropped to $99, would be the better supported, better deal compared to the PS2.  And while in most of the year the Pro/Elite sells more, in the Holidays the Arcade sells more because price is a bigger factor.  As far as your view of the average customer, you give them WAY more credit than is due.  The average customer does not sit around and read video game news or forums.  They go to the store, ask the clerk what to buy, and buy that, or they buy what they have played and enjoyed at their friend's house, which statistically would be more often 360.  The Arcade can play any game a PS2 can, with more features, better visuals, etc.

"The Arcade can play any game a PS2 can, with more features, better visuals, etc."- WHAT?

I'll assume that was what a customer would think... So then if price is the biggest factor, why would they pick a 99$ 360 over a 79$ ps2? 

I'm also referring to the fact that people will go to stores and say, "can I get a 360". To which the clerk will reply, which one the regular, the elite, or the arcade. This will eventually lead to customers asking what the difference is and so on. You don't have to be on a forum to find out what something does. Simply in the purchase of it, there will inevitably be questions.

Yeah, except the PS2 is still $99, not $79.  And there is only 2 models of the 360 now.  The sales associates can explain to them very easily the difference between the two.  I guess you didn't understand that I was talking about customer who go in without already made their decision on which to buy, or those who have played the console their friends own and want it, which statistically would be more often the 360.

Oh I am well aware of this personal little battle between Sony and MS, more aware than you it seems.  That's how it is incredibly obvious that the PS3 and Sony is still losing.  They are losing more money on the PS3 while MS is gaining money on the 360.  Sony is losing major marketshare in the living room domination scene while MS is gaining.  This is glaringly obvious when looking at how badly Sony has fallen compared to last gen and how much MS has improved over last gen. Yes the PS3 has seen more sales than the 360 for the last 2 months (YIPPEE END OF THE GEN SONY WINS!!!!111one! /sarcasm), but as you will begin to see starting with the next weeks numbers, the 360 will start to close the gap and the holidays will be about even because the Arcade is the dominant selling HD console when price is the biggest factor.

Xbox was released because of Sony motives. Sony started challenging the personal computer with their console, probably not intentionally. Computers once were one of the largest gaming platforms, and has obviously been steadily decreasing, as anyone can tell you. MS sold a lot of copies of windows and made a lot of licensing profits simply from people buying a computer for gaming. Consoles, became a much cheaper alternative to a computer, and were offering a very similar, and in some cases, better experience. Simply from the success of the ps1, MS saw that consoles were becoming very very popular. The whole point of the xbox was to reinvigorate the computing experience. Why do you think MS wanted xbox and PC to be so compatible to the point that all xbox exclusives could be shared? To make the PC the best gaming platform again. This may seem counterintuitive, but having a console dedicated to gaming is a great way to procure a large variety of high quality games. Without the xbox, PCs today would be much more limited in their gaming attractiveness.

Later, this was further challenged by the PSX which had a DVDR built in, and capable of photo, video, editing and other computer capabilities. Then, the ps3 challenged DVD itself with BR. Sony is moving the home console closer and closer to being a cheap computer, because there is a good market for it.

PS3 is winning this war because Sony is continuing to make strides toward replacing computers. MS wanted to stop them but couldn't. PC sales are down all over the board.

Yes, MS also want to make profit, because they are technically trying to recuperate losses to the PC income, but that is not their true purpose. What they are doing is providing even more competition to PCs, and in turn, decreasing potential Windows (among other software) sales. They are being counterproductive. They are being counterproductive because they don't know what to do. They've changed their strategy several times over with varying degrees of success.

Their goal, at the end of this, is to reinvigorate PC software sales. They are a software company, and windows and licensing makes them more money than any other avenue of income. Profit on the 360 is not important to that goal because they have a potential to make 10 times their losses back with the PC.

YAY

Like I said, I already know more about this entire situation than you.  You just spouted off everything I already knew, sooo... thanks for wasting everyone's time by doing this rather than actually answering my arguments....  PC sales are not down all over the board, and neither is their operating system.  The PS3 is still losing, I'm sorry.  Sony may keep making strides to replace PC's with a game console, but they'd have to sacrifice their own revenue (Sony PCs, Laptops, HDTV/PC hybrids) so that'd be a real idiotic move.  Also, MS at the same time would keep beating Sony at their own game.  If people switch to a console to replace their PC, it will be an MS console so MS still wins again

But alas, people are not replacing PC's with consoles just yet.  Especially now that most people want laptops and netbooks for portability.  Maybe next gen we might see this, but not yet, sorry pal

YAY