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Forums - Nintendo - Crystal Bearers developer: Selling on Wii will not be easy.

Gnizmo on 26 October 2009
ckmlb said:

Now who is paranoid? Also what I'm doing is nowhere near as obnoxious as coming into a thread calling me a troll because I made a thread quoting the game developer. I did not say anyone in this thread said their consoles is perfect, that was my description of fanboys in general and a respnose to the game being bashed before anyone has every played it.

So are you actually going to address any of the questions directed at you or just continue to avoid the in hopes people forget they were ever asked?



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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ckmlb on 26 October 2009
Gnizmo said:
ckmlb said:

Now who is paranoid? Also what I'm doing is nowhere near as obnoxious as coming into a thread calling me a troll because I made a thread quoting the game developer. I did not say anyone in this thread said their consoles is perfect, that was my description of fanboys in general and a respnose to the game being bashed before anyone has every played it.

So are you actually going to address any of the questions directed at you or just continue to avoid the in hopes people forget they were ever asked?

What specific questions?



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

ClaudeLv250 on 26 October 2009
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
...because the developer is exactly who made this thread and then called everyone opposing the view 'fanboys.'

Hmm, that's interesting. You fabricated an argument and then fought against it by claiming that the imaginary Wii Army said it and is out to get you. I haven't seen that type of paranoid behavior since Hus got perma'd.

Total 3rd party core games selling over 1.5 million on Wii are 6 out of which 4 can be casual or core.

1.5 million? Is this the new goal post? I can't really keep up with the Wii detractors anymore.

You are not any less transparent now than you were when you used to be a mod. You come in here with high horse BS about your holy crusade to save the Wii Army from their sins and pride in thinking their console is perfect...whose ass are you pulling this from? Who even said that in this thread? Could you be any more obnoxious?

What's the precendent for 1.5 million and the "top thirty?" The million sellers list starts at 1.00 million, the default top games list starts at the top 50. I decided to look at the list to see what you were so desperate to hide to make your tired troll arguments work and...surprise surpise! 1.5 million conveniently shaves off games like Call of Duty 3 + 5, Red Steel, PES, Star Wars TFU, Lego Indy + Batman, Shaun White, Sonic Unleashed, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, and more.

 

Now who is paranoid? Also what I'm doing is nowhere near as obnoxious as coming into a thread calling me a troll because I made a thread quoting the game developer. I did not say anyone in this thread said their consoles is perfect, that was my description of fanboys in general and a respnose to the game being bashed before anyone has every played it.

I called you a troll because you're trolling and have a history of trolling. You can hide behind the developer's words all you want, your agenda couldn't be anymore blatant. He said nothing about Dead Space, 1.5 million sellers, top 30 or any of that bullshit you've been tossing around in this thread. It's also funny how you avoided that when you got called out on it.

You are not cute. You are not clever. You are not original. And quite frankly I don't know why you came back.

 



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

Gnizmo on 26 October 2009
ckmlb said:
Gnizmo said:
ckmlb said:

Now who is paranoid? Also what I'm doing is nowhere near as obnoxious as coming into a thread calling me a troll because I made a thread quoting the game developer. I did not say anyone in this thread said their consoles is perfect, that was my description of fanboys in general and a respnose to the game being bashed before anyone has every played it.

So are you actually going to address any of the questions directed at you or just continue to avoid the in hopes people forget they were ever asked?

What specific questions?

Perhaps you should read the posts you are quoting. One of them came from claude in the very post you responded to. The other came from me just a few posts earlier.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

ckmlb on 26 October 2009
ClaudeLv250 said:
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
...because the developer is exactly who made this thread and then called everyone opposing the view 'fanboys.'

Now who is paranoid? Also what I'm doing is nowhere near as obnoxious as coming into a thread calling me a troll because I made a thread quoting the game developer. I did not say anyone in this thread said their consoles is perfect, that was my description of fanboys in general and a respnose to the game being bashed before anyone has every played it.

I called you a troll because you're trolling and have a history of trolling. You can hide behind the developer's words all you want, your agenda couldn't be anymore blatant. He said nothing about Dead Space, 1.5 million sellers, top 30 or any of that bullshit you've been tossing around in this thread. It's also funny how you avoided that when you got called out on it.

You are not cute. You are not clever. You are not original. And quite frankly I don't know why you came back.

 

Yes, but people called the core games not seslling on Wii if you missed it and that was a response to that, it was not out of nowhere. The Dead Space comment was about recently Dead Space extraction was dismissed by some because it didn't sell well. I am not the decider of which games sell and which don't, but the quality of the game cannot be questioned merely because of sales and that is what happened in this thread about this game by a specific post saying if the game is good it will sell which is not always the case, in fact bad games sell as well.

It's a debate, I think 3rd party core games are generally not selling as well as they should (some are not selling well at all).

1 million sellers on the Wii:

Total: 59 games

1st party: 19 games

3rd party: 40 games of which 16 are targetted at casuals and 6 are casuall/core hybrids (3 guitar heros, 2 mario and sonic olympics and 1 rock band)

So out of 59 million sellers, 35 are first party or purely 3rd party casual games and 6 are hybrids, 41 out 0f 59 million sellers causual or first party. If you consider all 6 hybrids thats's 35 out of 59 casual and first porty, not as bad but still an easy majority.

Of those 18 3rd party core games (As their main focus), there is litereally only one core new IP that debuted on the Wii that is a million seller and that is Red Steel (a launch game).

1 new 3rd party IP that has sold over a million on Wii a console with almost 55 million userbase in about 3 years on the market and it was a launch title.

 

 



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68soul on 26 October 2009
ckmlb said:
68soul said:
ckmlb said:
z101 said:

What is the list of quality games that's coming that's so many that a Final Fantasy game will have trouble selling? NSMB and what else?

 

Super Mario Galaxy 2, Fragile Dreams, Sin and Punishment 2, Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter 3, No More Heroes 2, Metroid Other M, Tales of Grace, Epic Mickey, The Grinder...

And personally, as i live in a Pal country, i'll still have to buy Muramasa, and a Boy and his Blob, released in 2009...

The Crystal Bearers is in many "want lists" as well, and is in direct competition for the Wii's "core gamers" money...

Some people may buy 50 games each year, but when you buy some of the best DS games, some of the best Wii games, and some of the best Wiiware games, you already have a very decent budget when like me and many others, you usually "only" buy 10 to 20 games each year...

2010 is by far the best year Wii's gonna have so far, as there are still many games unannounced, 3rd party as well as 1st party... the list above is mainly for the first 6 months of the year ONLY, 2 or 3 of these games will come later, by the end of 2010... so the budget of many Wii/DS lovers is already saturated, when the 2010 year hasn't even started yet...

By saying the next few months I thought it was meant literally the next few moths, the holiday period. Some of those games will sell well but are further away (Galaxy maybe a year away?) and Mickey (maybe beyond a year). Sin and Punishment, Monster Hunter, Tales Of Grace  and No More Heroes might be good games but they will not light up the charts at least in my estimation.

 

You're right, but Crystal Bearers won't be a 2009 release in PAL: it should come out between january and march...

Till january, my "shopping list" will already include New Super Mario Bros Wii, Muramasa, A Boy and His Blob, Zelda Spirit Tracks, the last Professor Layton, and a handful of very promising Wiiware titles (Cave Story, Super Meat Boy, Max and the Magic Marker, Night Sky, etc).

By the time Crystal Bearers is out, there should be a few more DS and Wii titles for me, like Nostalgia and Infinite Space on DS, No More Heroes 2, Fragile Dreams and Monster Hunter 3 on Wii... so you have to understand 2010 will be a very busy year, right from the start, and that Crystal Bearers will have to be EXCELLENT to become a real success amongst Wii gamers "in my style"...

The fact Squarenix just announced 15 hours of gameplay ONLY is already a small deception, as we're used to games like Twilight Princess (50 hours), Okami (40 hours), Metroid Prime (30 hours...each), Super Mario Galaxy (20 hours), and so on and on...

RPGs and action/adventures have to offer a very decent quality/price ratio, so Crystal Bearers isn't a guaranteed day one purchase for me yet... and i guess many may still think the same... wait and see: if the game is a critical success, and with the help of the FF brand, it should sell very well... otherwise, i hope noone will, once again, blame Wii owners for not buying 2nd grade efforts...



 

"A beautiful drawing in 480i will stay beautiful forever...

and an ugly drawing in 1080p will stay ugly forever..."

woopah on 26 October 2009

@ 68soul



thats 15 hours minimum. i completed Prime 3 100% in 30 hours and ii reckon you could complete it in 15 hours. I can see Crystal Bearers being a longer game than Prime 3



 nintendo fanboy, but the good kind

proud soldier of nintopia

 

68soul on 26 October 2009
woopah said:
@ 68soul



thats 15 hours minimum. i completed Prime 3 100% in 30 hours and ii reckon you could complete it in 15 hours. I can see Crystal Bearers being a longer game than Prime 3

 

Maybe, i guess it will depend on the sidequests then... if there are any... so far, everything i saw from the game made me think: it will be a huge world to explore, similar to the Twilight Princess Hyrule... but 15 hours, or even 20 or 25 hours, it's not that huge anymore...

Now, if all these hours of gameplay are truly epic and fun, and the controls are awesome, it's OK... but if it's random fun, it will be either a rental, a wait till a new bargain price, or a second hand purchase for me: not a full price thing... it's the only way to keep my gaming budget decent...

 



 

"A beautiful drawing in 480i will stay beautiful forever...

and an ugly drawing in 1080p will stay ugly forever..."

routsounmanman on 26 October 2009
RolStoppable said:
ckmlb said:

 

It's a debate, I think 3rd party core games are generally not selling as well as they should (some are not selling well at all).

1 million sellers on the Wii:

Total: 59 games

1st party: 19 games

3rd party: 40 games of which 16 are targetted at casuals and 6 are casuall/core hybrids (3 guitar heros, 2 mario and sonic olympics and 1 rock band)

So out of 59 million sellers, 35 are first party or purely 3rd party casual games and 6 are hybrids, 41 out 0f 59 million sellers causual or first party. If you consider all 6 hybrids thats's 35 out of 59 casual and first porty, not as bad but still an easy majority.

Of those 18 3rd party core games (As their main focus), there is litereally only one core new IP that debuted on the Wii that is a million seller and that is Red Steel (a launch game).

1 new 3rd party IP that has sold over a million on Wii a console with almost 55 million userbase in about 3 years on the market and it was a launch title.

That's an alarming fact.

But whose fault is it? The Wii owners'? Or are third parties themselves to blame?

Let's have a realistic look at that. In order for a new IP to surpass one million in sales it needs at least one of the following things: quality, marketing, attractive pricing, a worldwide release. It's also pretty much a requirement that the core game is in a popular genre to surpass one million. What are these genres? Well, they are defined by what has been successful on previous and current consoles (PS2, Xbox, GC, PS3, 360, Wii). So let's go through these genres and see which new core third party IPs had a realistic chance to sell one million copies based on the requirements mentioned before, because there must be a good reason why people buy a game.

  • FPS: 1. Red Steel. It didn't have the quality, but it was advertised. Being a launch title helped as well, because people wanted to see how FPS work on the Wii.
    2. The Conduit. Mostly based on its hype, but unfortunately the final product fell short of expectations. Decent game and decent seller, but it's not going to reach a million.
  • TPS: N/A
  • Sandbox: N/A
  • Platformer: N/A
  • Action: N/A
  • Action-Adventure: Monster Hunter 3 - very close to a million in Japan alone
  • Racing: N/A
  • JRPG: N/A
  • WRPG: N/A
  • Fighting: N/A

So overall, it's one out of two so far. I doubt that one of the HD consoles has a better ratio of success when it comes to new core third party IPs this generation, but feel free to prove me wrong on this one.

Anyway, what this means is that third parties are doing something wrong when it comes to core games and it's not the fault of Wii owners that there aren't more million sellers from third parties. Most of the time their quality games are niche products which have no realistic chance to pass a million in the first place. Obviously those games can still make profits, because the one million mark hasn't to be reached in order to make a title successful.

 



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gansito on 26 October 2009
ClaudeLv250 said:
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
ckmlb said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
...because the developer is exactly who made this thread and then called everyone opposing the view 'fanboys.'

Hmm, that's interesting. You fabricated an argument and then fought against it by claiming that the imaginary Wii Army said it and is out to get you. I haven't seen that type of paranoid behavior since Hus got perma'd.

Total 3rd party core games selling over 1.5 million on Wii are 6 out of which 4 can be casual or core.

1.5 million? Is this the new goal post? I can't really keep up with the Wii detractors anymore.

You are not any less transparent now than you were when you used to be a mod. You come in here with high horse BS about your holy crusade to save the Wii Army from their sins and pride in thinking their console is perfect...whose ass are you pulling this from? Who even said that in this thread? Could you be any more obnoxious?

What's the precendent for 1.5 million and the "top thirty?" The million sellers list starts at 1.00 million, the default top games list starts at the top 50. I decided to look at the list to see what you were so desperate to hide to make your tired troll arguments work and...surprise surpise! 1.5 million conveniently shaves off games like Call of Duty 3 + 5, Red Steel, PES, Star Wars TFU, Lego Indy + Batman, Shaun White, Sonic Unleashed, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, and more.

 

Now who is paranoid? Also what I'm doing is nowhere near as obnoxious as coming into a thread calling me a troll because I made a thread quoting the game developer. I did not say anyone in this thread said their consoles is perfect, that was my description of fanboys in general and a respnose to the game being bashed before anyone has every played it.

I called you a troll because you're trolling and have a history of trolling. You can hide behind the developer's words all you want, your agenda couldn't be anymore blatant. He said nothing about Dead Space, 1.5 million sellers, top 30 or any of that bullshit you've been tossing around in this thread. It's also funny how you avoided that when you got called out on it.

You are not cute. You are not clever. You are not original. And quite frankly I don't know why you came back.

 

you give wii fanboys a bad name, i honestly don't know why you haven't been banned, you're aggressive, rude, and a douche. CKMLB has contributed to more interesting discussions than you have. I'd rather have someone on VGC to talk about games and sales, than to be on the lookout calling everyone a nintendo hater when they post something you don't like about your precious console. So please stop being so defensive.

You are not cute, you are not clever, and you are not original, and quite frankly i think the forums would be better if you left.