The dude who started this thread is saying. PS3 is selling faster at launch then X360 did etc... Well, that might be true, but then it's still ain't winning the console race... DON'T FORGET THE WII!

I just had a really big post ready for you to read but I accidently closed the window. URRGH hate it when it happens.. Anyway, I'll try and bring most of it back in. What's wrong with dual layered discs? Most 360 games are dual layered dvds (DVD9) and they don't have any problem. But even when you take dual layer out you're still left with 25 against 4.7 (DVD5). Can't you see that this space is there for a reason?? Sony thought about it from the start. Blu-ray is for HD games. MGS4 is just the start and if we go by your assumption (15-18 compressed) then it's more than plausible to think that in 2 years time games will fill 25-30 gigs of the BR disc. And in 4-5 years it's gonna get to 35-40 gigs... And dare I say it, in 6 years it's gonna fill it up to the max. And what do you suppose those extra gigs are used for? More content and expanded graphics.. That is, a better gameplay experience. If Microsoft doesn't include the HDDVD drive in every 360 now, they're doomed... And the Wii.. Is NOT, I repeat NOT, next-gen... The Wiimote is the Wii's seller, but it's easily compared to what the Eye-toy did to the PS2's sales.. It sold, It sold good and fast, but it was a fad. The lack of mainstream games will drag it down, year by year (for 2 years) because seriously, who plays these games?? EDIT: "Does it matter if the PS3 outsell the launch of the xbox360 when the xbox360 is ouselling the PS3 now?" YES! Obviously! Simple math, if x outsells y for every month and y had a year start, eventually x will pass it. Things that sell consoles: Games, movies (If said console can play them) and gimmicks. And obviously Games are the No.1 seller, movies afterwards, and gimmicks are last. The Wii has family/party (No mainstream) games, no movie playback (AFAIK. correct me if I'm wrong) and a Wiimote as it's main gimmick. It's also small and cheap, but they don't really affect sales, do they? In short terms, the Wii wins. The 360 has mainstream games, DVD movie playback, and absolutely no gimmicks whatsoever. The PS3 has mainstream games (More in quality IMO), BR movie playback, and HD and the tilt sensor as gimmicks. Plus they're getting vibration back, but that's old-gen, and something all consoles share. It's silent, it's more powerful.. in the long run, It wins! And the long run counts.

Define "next-gen." Were Genesis and SNES not "next-gen" in 1990 because of the Neo-Geo? Were Saturn and PS1 not "next-gen" in 1996 because of the N64? HD is not the definition of "next-gen." If you want to tell me Wii isn't an HD console, that's perfectly legitimate, but if Wii keeps selling at the pace it is, and PS3 keeps selling at the pace *it* is, I'm sure people of the future will consider Wii far more represetative of this generation than PS3. So nyah-nyah, Wii is more next-gen than PS3 EDIT Soul, in respons to your edit, go look at the PS1/N64 hardware charts, both launch aligned and date aligned. Then tell me where your logic fits into that equation.

Next-gen - a far more realistic way of playing games. The Wiimote will not be able to pull this stunt alone so, sorry but the outdated graphics and lack of power will never meet this demand. PLUS, I read some guy in the forum saying that Nintendo were aiming for non-gamers with the Wii... So here's another reason for ya why it's not Next-gen. Hey! The PS3 has HD graphics and more power to actually create real life envirnoments and it has the Sixaxis to support it (As a backup player). Sorry, but this DOES answer the demand, so nyah-nyah PS3 is more next-gen than Wii. And I don't need to look at charts to test my logic.. My logic is based on math. If the PS3 sells more than it's Mainstream-games counterpart every month, eventually, it'll win. When you accumulate it, it's gonna top it. Now, what's your definition of Next-gen?

for me definition of next gen is "new and innovative" perfect graphics i can have on my pc - for this i don't need a expensive ps3 changes like a new controller - wiimote for example - is more next gen for me but this is my personal opinion

Oh so "A far more realistic way of playing games" doesn't cut it? OH pur-leaase... On the PC? Are you kidding me?? It's gonna be more expensive to get a new GFX card and upgrade your CPU every 3 months then to buy a PS3 for 600$ that will ALWAYS meet the system requirements (duhh) and when you hook it to a 46 inch HD TV it's gonna look more beautiful then any game on a PC 21 inch LCD monitor (Or whatever maximum PC monitors have). Bottom line, PS3 is a super computer with beautiful games that look more realistic than the Wii and the PC.

well iam developer - i get always a new computer from my company i am not playing so much - the most of the time iam spending with zelda at the moment or in this forum :) well, on wii iam buying games ... but on pc ... but when you buy me a hd television we can get good friends, cause iam buying a non hd next month