In trying to hunt down the extent of randomization in Borderlands (I am always on lookout for a newer version of Diablo, particularly a FPS version) and have been a fan of random world generation.  I had assumed that games do benefit from this, on a replayability standpoint.  However, in threads I have run into on the Internet, I see people have strongly argued that random maps are BAD and make the game more shallow.  They have argued hand crafted maps are superior, and games suffer from random generation.  Hellgate: London was brought up as an example of a game that sucked, because of the random maps.  People were downright thankful that Borderlands wouldn't have any map randomization as far as terrain goes (well, that is the assumption), and they argued that the designers made a superior game by getting rid of it.  Please pardon me for not having exactly links here, just giving a synopsis of what I recall.

Anyhow, on this note, I want to ask others if games like Diablo and Civilization would be superior without random map generation.  And if games shouldn't provides this, and your thoughts on this.

So, anyone have any comments here?  I also would like to know what the status is regarding randomization in Borderlands.  The strategy guide gives no indication of the maps having any randomization in them.

With Diablo, I'm neutral. But Civilization needs it. You can still create maps or download other maps, but it's thanks to this random factor that every game is unique and different. I doubt Civilization would be nearly as good if it had just a set of predesigned maps for you to play on.

No sure about randomization in Borderlands but IMO it isn't a shallow thing at all. The games that need it make it even better I think, like Diablo. I agree with Ultima on Civ, it needed both options. Dungeon crawlers that are loot based (aka Diablo) it makes perfect sense in my book and keeps it fresh.

That was the impression I had with Borderlands, that it was a FPS dungeon crawl, where you went about and tried to get better weapons.  For me, if the map is the same, it is missing something.  But, I ask, because I saw others who disagreed strongly with this, even some who feared the entire world would randomize as you played it, with mines disappearing and so on.  And this happening means you didn't get a feeling of "progress" beating the game.

Diablo was not always random. All the major bosses were in pre-defined areas. You can have both, randomization and scripted events all in one.

I don't know to what extent it's done in Borderlands as I've never followed it, but in Diablo 2 you're always going to find yourself getting to the same set pieces and such regardless of the random maps, but I like the sense of exploration (as long as there's no Iron Maiden spells being cast or a swarm of Willowisps). Even if your searching for the Durance of Hate level 3 or trying to find out which tomb is Tal Rasha's real tomb, it's a little different each time. That along with the drops and outfitting your character is what makes Diablo 2 so interesting for me and how you can go back and do the same quests over and over.

While I haven't had much experience with the Civilization series, another RTS game I've played like Age of Empires 2 would work as an example too and yes, random maps can be nice. Sure, you can have non-random maps as part of the game or user made (RPG or blood maps!), but I'd say that random maps can help promote strategy in regards to the environment you'll have to deal with on top of the strategy of winning the match.

I think Blizzard is on the right track with D3. Overworld is hand-crafted, but dungeons and side quests are randomly placed - as are a lot of the underworld areas themselves.

Best of both worlds I think.

I like random maps because I'm not spoon fed.

I am not opposed to there being both, and think it helps.  I am of the belief when you are doing things like grinding to build up, having things randomized helps, or if there is a need to explore and to prevent preset planning, then randomizing (procedurally generating maps) helps. 

I remember when Age of Wonders came out, the designers labelled those who wanted the maps randomized as "The Random Map Cult" from way back when.  Well, I thought the name stuck as a good label, so I started a Yahoo group with that name:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/randommaps/

When it comes to RTS titles (another post) Age of Empires is an exception.  Most maps are NOT randomized/procedurally generated.

I like my diablo random. I would still play it today if it was not.