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Forums - Sony Discussion - Aritcle/Analysis: Sony screws up with new PS3 (40 GB)

SlorgNet said:
Dodece said:

Honestly I think the PS3 will rise or sink based entirely on this sku.


Not at all. Sony is precisely where they planned to be. Sony asked consumers what they wanted, and they said they wanted (1) a lower price, (2) rumble back, and (3) didn't care about BC. To its credit, Sony listened.

The $399/399EUR model is essentially an affordable BluRay player, and HDTVs are finally cheap enough to make a mass market possible. Consumers who want to preserve their PS2 library (like me) will buy the 60GB/80GB model, of course. But BluRay-related sales are going to kick up those PS3 numbers. It'll start small, because consumers are still making the switch to HDTV, but it will build over time.

Hahaha.

Call me crazy, but when did Sony ask consumers if they wanted BR? 

When did Sony ask consumers if they wanted rumble gone in the first place?

When did consumers say they dont care about BC?

Seems like Sony is in the exact opposite place they planned to be, and expected to be. Seems like they misjudged the market and are now paying dearly for it. Seems like they're trying to find what works with the market.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

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SlorgNet said:
Dodece said:

Honestly I think the PS3 will rise or sink based entirely on this sku.


Not at all. Sony is precisely where they planned to be. Sony asked consumers what they wanted, and they said they wanted (1) a lower price, (2) rumble back, and (3) didn't care about BC. To its credit, Sony listened.

The $399/399EUR model is essentially an affordable BluRay player, and HDTVs are finally cheap enough to make a mass market possible. Consumers who want to preserve their PS2 library (like me) will buy the 60GB/80GB model, of course. But BluRay-related sales are going to kick up those PS3 numbers. It'll start small, because consumers are still making the switch to HDTV, but it will build over time.


That was so stupid my brain hurt. First off the quote was totally irrelevant to your statement. You neither proved or disproved the quote in any way shape or form. So I ask the question why quote at all. Second you claim the format is going to move a gaming machine. Then you say that the adoption rate will be small. Which exactly is it. Did you ignore the part where I said time was critical, and Sony did not have a lot of time to work with. I dare not fathom what goes on in your head. I gather it is some magical world where the realities of life do not apply. Seriously you need some help, hell you need a lot of help. I have ignored your previous replies up till this point, but god where does this come from. Every post you type makes me want to bang my head into a wall. Everyone else forgive me for losing my usual civil tone, but this guy is driving me batty. Every time he comes near my posts its like someone neutering a cat without anesthetic. Just imagine being in that room, and you should understand how I feel.

Dodece said:
SlorgNet said:
Dodece said:

Honestly I think the PS3 will rise or sink based entirely on this sku.


Not at all. Sony is precisely where they planned to be. Sony asked consumers what they wanted, and they said they wanted (1) a lower price, (2) rumble back, and (3) didn't care about BC. To its credit, Sony listened.

The $399/399EUR model is essentially an affordable BluRay player, and HDTVs are finally cheap enough to make a mass market possible. Consumers who want to preserve their PS2 library (like me) will buy the 60GB/80GB model, of course. But BluRay-related sales are going to kick up those PS3 numbers. It'll start small, because consumers are still making the switch to HDTV, but it will build over time.


 

That was so stupid my brain hurt. First off the quote was totally irrelevant to your statement. You neither proved or disproved the quote in any way shape or form. So I ask the question why quote at all. Second you claim the format is going to move a gaming machine. Then you say that the adoption rate will be small. Which exactly is it. Did you ignore the part where I said time was critical, and Sony did not have a lot of time to work with. I dare not fathom what goes on in your head. I gather it is some magical world where the realities of life do not apply. Seriously you need some help, hell you need a lot of help. I have ignored your previous replies up till this point, but god where does this come from. Every post you type makes me want to bang my head into a wall. Everyone else forgive me for losing my usual civil tone, but this guy is driving me batty. Every time he comes near my posts its like someone neutering a cat without anesthetic. Just imagine being in that room, and you should understand how I feel.
your eloquence may one day doom us all!

 



Help! I'm stuck in a forum signature!

Here it is.

Backwards compatibility was something that Sony made people expect. VERY TRUE that before Sony backwards compatibility wasn't a major feature in consoles. Some NES owners complained when SNES had totally different cartridges and I'm sure some didn't cross over because of that. We began to expect consoles not to have at least built-in backwards compatibility (some had add-ons down the road) and then in 2000 Sony with its large PS1 library decided to make that feature an integral part of their systems where you could play all of your old favorites along with the new stuff coming out on the system that could produce "Toy Story" graphics.

I'm telling you this was a big deal. Everybody here knows how much of a Nintendo fan I am but I liked the PS1 because a lot of my favorite franchises went over there when 3rd party made the split from Nintendo. Plus there were some interesting games (Bushido Blade, Grand Theft Auto, Abe's Oddysee) on the PS1 I wanted to try out. But funds were limited and so was space so I never was able to get a PS1 at the time. THEN the PS2 was announced with these features and suddenly I could catch up on all those games I missed from the PS1 generation along with seeing the cool stuff upcoming from the PS2. This was actually a selling point to ME in 2000, a diehard Nintendo fan. I would always buy a Nintendo system first but I was strongly considering getting a PS2 down the line. I could pick up old games from the big retailers, game stores, or the pawn shops and build up my collection of both PS1 & PS2. Before I heard of PS2's reliability problems, I was set on getting a PS2 once the price was more in my range. I didn't buy either a N64 or a Gamecube until the 1st price cut when they were $150 a piece.

That's MY personal story that tells you what BC can do for a console.

It was a smart feature including that built in even if it wasn't 100% perfect. And that helped to build the Playstation legacy. A vast library of games that showed the depth of the Playstation brand. That's how many Sony fans were born.

Let me tell you what ELSE makes taking out BC a big deal.

While some people sell and pawn and trade their games for new ones, some like me and many others hang on to their library for life. They like the games and will play them over and over again. Chess and Dominoes have been played for millenia and are still played today. We still play Monopoly and other board games. Just because a game is old doesn't mean it shouldn't be played anymore. That's absolute nonsense. Digital gaming is just another form of gaming in general whether it be Checkers, Chinese Checkers, Hungry Hungry Hippos, Candy Land, Chutes and Ladders, Petanque, Pool/Billiards, Darts, Spades, Poker, Blackjack, Old Maid, Hanafuda, Mahjongg, Cricket, Marbles, Tag, Red Light/Green Light, Hide and Go Seek, Jenga, You Don't Know Jack, Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?, The Price Is Right, Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, Press Your Luck, Touch Football, Flag Football, Horse Basketball, Jumpball, Kickball, Dodgeball, Volleyball, Janken (Paper, Rock, Scissors), Open Chest, Pencil Fight, Yu-Gi-Oh playing cards, Magic the Gathering, Dungeons & Dragons, Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots, Ping Pong, Battleship, One Potato Two Potato, Bubblegum Bubblegum, Eenie Meenie Miney Moe, Tic-Tac-Toe,
Hangman, Jai Alai, even down to a simple footrace.

Timeless and will be played for generations to come. So why do people expect all people to throw out all their old videogames? We still play Pac-Man. Go to any Laundromat and you'll likely see a Ms. Pac-Man right inside. Super Mario Bros. has been reintroduced on so many formats from GameBoy to the Virtual Console and they still buy it up. They made a movie about Donkey Kong called King of Kong and people still get their rocks off with a good ol' fashioned Street Fighter II faceoff.

So some people want to keep their games like they keep their old records and cassettes. They want to play 'em later if they get the whim. BUT living room space is limited and some people don't want all that clutter in front of their entertainment centers, TV trays, TV screens, coffee tables or end tables. So some attic the old console or more likely move the old one to another room in the house. Maybe the old console becomes the little brother hand-me-down or they put it in the den to keep the little kid visitors out of their hair. Maybe the mama wants to play some puzzle game from the old system and just that so they put the old one in the bedroom while the new one in the living room is for all to play or for special company to play like in get-togethers.

THIS is why it's a big deal. The price was too high for most people. Remember consoles are mainly for working class and poor people for cheap luxury entertainment. It's the same principle that fueled VCRs/DVDs and the movie rental industry. The ability to watch movies in your own home for affordable prices. Some people wait for the DVD release instead of going to the theaters so they and their kids can watch a movie at will. Rich people can travel the globe by private plane, poorer people have to travel the globe through the pictures on the screen. They can escape through the medium but still be right where they always were. Because PS3 ain't cheap enough people are not buying in large enough quantities. But many still want Sony's player because they've built up so many games in the past 12 years in the Playstation library. So all they're really waiting on is the price to become affordable enough for them to latch on and transfer all of that library to the new machine so they can retire the old one.

Also factoring into this is the poor quality of Sony's gameplayers. They break. Easily. And while that's a big problem in MY book, other people expect them not to last long and may want Sony's new player to cover them when the ol' PS2 rides off into the sunset. PS3 would THEN have access to nearly ALL of the entire Playstation library all the way back to the beginnings, play the NEW PS3 games, and ALSO have a feature to play Blu-Ray movies for those interested in that format.

But taking BC OUT??? They've cut the nose off to spite the face. I could use a more pornographic metaphor too but I won't 'cause this is a family site We'll just say halving the hot dog to spite the bun, OK? You have a competitor that is giving a similar output to you for about 33% less the price. While this system is even MORE unreliable than your unreliable one EVER was it is backed by a moneyrich corporation who leaves repair warranties open ended so all gets fixed. While that's not a good precedent if they were in command of an industry it works out pretty well that they are just a participant. The fact that XBox 360 has a horrible hardware reliability factor can make that extra cost of the PS3 look more reasonable. The 'you get what you pay for' analogy. It has weight. You have all this PS legacy also factoring into the cost in the minds of some people. By removing this feature you remove that advantage. Now they begin to ask themselves what's so special about your system (PS3) in comparison to their system (XBox 360)? They'll start comparing and wonder if PS3 isn't nothing but hype and no substance. Both systems have $60 games. Both systems graphical output is similar despite the claims of Sony. Unrealized potential means Bean Hill if customers don't see it for themselves. I can always talk about what I COULD do. You can only suspend disbelief but so long. They'll begin to get impatient if you don't deliver results on the purported claims. There's nothing very special about PS3 in comparison to XBox 360 outside of console design (a glossy grand piano black grill/fridge/obsidian vs. a big hunk/chunk of off-white/neon green silicon with metal trimmings) and one that plays Blu-Ray movies, part of a format war which is not exactly setting the world on fire right now.

So people will begin to ask themselves "well should I just keep the PS2, find a spare and just forget about getting a new system of any kind?" or "should I keep the PS2, find a spare and start looking into the other machines XBox 360 and Wii?" Some will opt out of videogames altogether. Some will opt out of videogames and slowly become PC players. Some will join the XBandwagon going over to 360, picking up their games, the games on XBox Live Arcade, and some of the old XBox 1 games still available in scattered locations. Some will jump aboard the Wiiwagon going over to Wii, picking up their games, some of the old Gamecube games still around, and the VC games right home on the system. Sometimes one of two of the previously mentioned choices combined.

All of this hurts the PS3. Sticking to PS2 with no want to change hurts PS3. Dropping out of consoles altogether hurts PS3. Going to PC hurts PS3. Going to 360 hurts PS3. Going to Wii hurts PS3. It's just a no-win and Sony loses more with all of these cuts since they lose at now greater losses from manufacture to sale.

BC was introduced as a LASTING standard BY Sony (Atari 7800 did it but no one cared about 7800 by that time). Their base has come to expect it from them over anyone else and to take it away in the scramble to jolt the market in their favor only alienates more people undoing what they set out to accomplish.

They have made a grave error with this move but with the way the whole project was set up to begin with, it was destiny. XBox 360's lead and rush to market messed up all of Sony's plans for the PS3. Wii only sealed the deal especially by taking Japan. Their downfall actually started with the PSP. Once DS trumped them they were reeling. The PS3 was the chance to regain that lost momentum and undo the efforts of the competition.

The slope is leveling off and is headed toward perpendicularity to the vertical axis in regards to the momentum of the PS3.

John Lucas 



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 

How can so many people just miss the point of it all.

- Theres a PS3 with bc and one without, you want one with it you can buy it if you don't you can save yourself some cash.

- Those that buy the 40gb will buy it for the PS3 games and or BR playing ability.

- $400 might not be "mass market" but it is low enough for many people to pick it up for the holidays as a present.





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BC is important, try to nay say it all you want, but that's the case.

Montana, in response to your question what if the Wii was released at $150 will no GC BC...

Did the GC have the PS2's phenomenal game library? Did Nintendo declare BC an industry standard with the GC the way Sony did with the PS2? I would never forgive Nintendo if they abandoned BC for any reason but in all fairness the GC library is one many could easily forget given the fact that a great deal of Wii owners never owned one to begin with.

Your hypothetical is also without adequate basis as the Wii is hardly in a position to really benefit from such a price cut at this point in time given its current maintained threshold of success as an already "must have" product which is still to some degree supply constrained. It's no different a scenario than if I were to, let's say, drop the price of Gas at the pump by a dollar a gallon, will more people buy gas than normal, yes, but not significantly, most people have to buy gas on a regular basis regardless what it costs (just as most people are going to buy a Wii regardless a price cut), they'll just be happy it cost less.



SCEA arent idiots, they wont leave out backwards compatibility.

The 80gb will stay there

The 40gb is just a ps3 to increase sales that is all.



 

 2008 end of year predictions:

PS3: 22M

360: 25M

wii: 40M

well from what I herd from a EB manager (as reliable as they normally are lol).

The 80gb and 60gb will be phased out and the new models of ps3 will not have BC.



to me it sounds rather ridicules. my guess is he don't know shit.



men, men man,

the fact to reach the 400$ price without BC is the better move made by Sony this generation.
The 40gb is cheaper than a Xbox360 Elite. I m not gona argue it is better or not. I just say the PS3 offer is really cheaper than before and closer to the Xbox360 offer.

The question : is BC important ??

I saied to you : NO

The potential PS3 owner are PS2 owners, they dont care of BC since they already have a PS2.

I will say it differently :

people care about BC
it is always better to have BC.

BUT IF THE PS3 DOESN'T SUPPORT BC, they will still buy the PS3 IF THEY WANT TO BUY A PS3 !!

now the question :
WHY DO YOU WANT THE PS3 ??

BECAUSE of the PS3 games !!



Time to Work !

As Is say

$399 IS PIVOTAL FOR THIS HOLIDAY SEASON

THEY NEED TO GET DOWN THE PRICE!! or sEE DISASTROUS PS3 SALES

If BC goes LET IT GO



Supporter of

 SONY & Nintendo

 Consoles owned - SNES, N64, PS, GC, PS2, PSP, PS3

 I DO NOT support Xbox

My prediction for YEARS END:

WII - 18.3 Million

Xbox 360 - 15 Million

Playstation 3 - 8.5 Million