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Forums - Sales - my thoughts on the sales war between sony and m$

Wandamaximoff on 13 October 2009

The 360 last time i checked is still in the lead and is still strong in the US,

OK so europe is warm and japan is freezing but who cares???

the truth is sony will be kicking there own asses due to the fact that they made a hugely exspensive console and have yet not seen anything BUT debt from it.

the slim has cost sony millions in development and advertisement i wouldnt call it a sucsess yet.

eveyone knew sony was a super brand when it comes to games consoles HOWEVER the fact that they are STILL in 3rd place is shocking!!

after all how long will it take for the 720 to come out? and will that be enough time for sony to regain ENOUGH of its market share?



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uber on 13 October 2009
TRios_Zen said:
uber said:
 

that's a good point to bring up, and it needs to be addressed.  how does one determine a superior machine?  since there will always be rather significant differences between consoles, it seems to preclude ever being able to speak of such a thing as superiority.  if one requires the consoles to be chiefly the same, then  the notion of superiority loses its meaning.  in order to avoid this quandary we need to be clear is how we define our terms.  i think that in determining superiority it is relevant and important to consider what each respective manufacturer bothered to bring to the table in this gen.  what i'm referring to is what comes in each box.  sony thought it important to include bluray, wifi, etc...., and microsoft thought it best to include a headset or whatever they put in the box. 

when one boils it down, at equal price points the public prefers what sony brings to the next gen table.   this discussion overlooks objective notions of superiority in lieu of brute sales.  i don't subscribe to this thinking, as i've always thought the ps3 was the best system.  i was just trying to make people realize the implication made in saying the 360 needs to be cheaper and bundled out the ass to be competitive again.

I think you might be taking apart your own argument here...

Sony has included stuff in their box; we'll call it their "value proposition", okay?  To achieve "brute sales" greater than the 360, they had to cut the price to increase the percieved value.  IF Microsoft attempts to increase thier "value proposition" by including Natal or further reducing the price, they are responding to a changing market, that is no more a "tacit acknowledgement" of anything, then Sony's original re-design/price cut was.

I don't want to get stuck on semantics here, but I'm finding your original position (that MS fans should acknowlede inferiority) to be discredited by your above response, and your further suppositions to be, well, pretty vanilla.  At the same price point, the public DOES prefer a blu-ray playing, wi-fi having video game console to one that doesn't...I think most people would agree with that.  Microsofts inevitable response (enabled by thier original design decisions) is just that, a response to an evolving market place.  Pretty basic business 101 there. 

So I'm not sure exactly what ARE the implications you are trying to make?

the implication is just as you said.  you just removed the label of superior from the discussion.  you are right that the public has said that at the same price they would prefer the ps3.  that is the bottom line.  halo can't change that.  gears can't change that.  the ps3 had releases that made the public consider preferring the ps3 despite its inflated price.  the fact that the only thing that can make the 360 competitive is either lowering the price or changing their value proposition is, in my opinion, an indictment of the system as a whole.   i think many people still want to hold on to the feeling they had when the ps3 was floundering in weak sales and absent marketing.  they took that as a mandate of the people that the 360 was better and all that jive.  i was merely trying to highlight the folly of such thinking.



art is the excrement of culture

TRios_Zen on 13 October 2009
uber said:
TRios_Zen said:

I think you might be taking apart your own argument here...

Sony has included stuff in their box; we'll call it their "value proposition", okay?  To achieve "brute sales" greater than the 360, they had to cut the price to increase the percieved value.  IF Microsoft attempts to increase thier "value proposition" by including Natal or further reducing the price, they are responding to a changing market, that is no more a "tacit acknowledgement" of anything, then Sony's original re-design/price cut was.

I don't want to get stuck on semantics here, but I'm finding your original position (that MS fans should acknowlede inferiority) to be discredited by your above response, and your further suppositions to be, well, pretty vanilla.  At the same price point, the public DOES prefer a blu-ray playing, wi-fi having video game console to one that doesn't...I think most people would agree with that.  Microsofts inevitable response (enabled by thier original design decisions) is just that, a response to an evolving market place.  Pretty basic business 101 there. 

So I'm not sure exactly what ARE the implications you are trying to make?

the implication is just as you said.  you just removed the label of superior from the discussion.  you are right that the public has said that at the same price they would prefer the ps3.  that is the bottom line.  halo can't change that.  gears can't change that.  the ps3 had releases that made the public consider preferring the ps3 despite its inflated price.  the fact that the only thing that can make the 360 competitive is either lowering the price or changing their value proposition is, in my opinion, an indictment of the system as a whole.   i think many people still want to hold on to the feeling they had when the ps3 was floundering in weak sales and absent marketing.  they took that as a mandate of the people that the 360 was better and all that jive.  i was merely trying to highlight the folly of such thinking.

@Bolded, Sony did the exact same thing, no they did BOTH, just to get where we are at now, yet you are trying to "highlight the folly of some people thinking the 360 is better" because Microsoft may have to react to that at some point in the future?

The truth is, even though you seem to want to point out the folly of over-reacting to market situations, aren't you doing the exact same thing, except proclaiming "the PS3 is better" and all that jive?



uber on 13 October 2009

no, not at all.

you seem to forget that what prompted all of this was that the two consoles were competing at different price points. the price turned out to be the deciding factor all along. sony did what they needed to remove the price hurdle...thus giving consumers the equal option of how to spend their money. i think many people would have held that the 360 would be preferred anyway...because it was the better system. that is what i am addressing.



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TRios_Zen on 13 October 2009
uber said:
no, not at all.

you seem to forget that what prompted all of this was that the two consoles were competing at different price points. the price turned out to be the deciding factor all along. sony did what they needed to remove the price hurdle...thus giving consumers the equal option of how to spend their money. i think many people would have held that the 360 would be preferred anyway...because it was the better system. that is what i am addressing.

I think you seem to forget that they were competing at different prices because Sony choose to include more expensive additions to thier system.  Sony's removal of the price hurdle was done because they HAD to, not because they wanted to. Furthermore, they HAD to, because of their performance in the market...  I'm just not sure how ANY of that, should influence ANYONE on which system is better...

However we have both digressed; I'm willing to agree to disagree.

 



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uber on 13 October 2009

it appears we are talking around each other.



art is the excrement of culture

elticker on 18 October 2009
Gilgamesh said:
elticker said:
Gilgamesh said:

Like I said many times Natal will do nothing for hardware sales (Same as the PS Wand or Sphere or whatever there calling it). The only thing Microsoft can do is cut the price by $100 on the Elite to have sales better then PS3, but then again it'll only be a matter of time till the PS3 cuts the price then it'll be the PS3 ahead again. The X360 had a year start, sales are going to start going downhill while PS3's continue to go up, it's only natural.

There's not much Microsoft can do. There dead in Japan and there's pretty much nothing they can do to save them (unless they some how get FFXIII, but that looks highly doughtful). There already dying (<--fixed) in Others and GT5 will be the nail in the coffin for that. The only region they have going for them is America, and as big as America is it won't be enough to save them.


first thing how do you know natal will do nothing to sales, i dont know neither does microsoft(they are expecting it to do good but they didnt sell it yet so how do they know) so how do you know. by the way xbox 360 is ahead by 1 mil in others so if ps keeps outselling xbox 360 by 50k they will need atleast 20 weeks but i dont think micrososft will let playstation outsell them in others or atleast they will try to.  ps its unlinkiley that ps3 will come in second this generation but its possible which i hope not.

Natal is an accessory, since when has an accessory saved a console, actually if history repeats itself then this will kill the X360 faster then ever. It'll do nothing for hardware sales, might help out software sales though. And you sir are forgetting that the next 20 weeks is the most important time of the year when it comes to sales, that 20 weeks can basically turn into 10 weeks because of the high holiday sales, by the end of December the PS3 will be ahead of the X360 in others.

I also don't see how it's unlikely that the PS3 won't come in second, seems kind of natural to me that it's going to happen?. The X360 has a year start, it already has a console at the big $199 price point, there really isn't anything other then Halo (and maybe Gears) that Microsoft has for the X360 while the PS3 has a huge list of big AAA exclusives. The PS3 has already out sold the X360 for the 2009 year, already! after being outsold by the X360 from pretty much every week of 2009.

So it seems very reasonable for the PS3 to outsell the X360.

@Kowenicki, sure the X360 has twice the amount of consoles sold in America, but like I said you can't ignore the rest of the world, I mean 300 million VS. 6.4 billion? you can't just rely on America (even though it is the biggest market), that's just suicide to stick to one region and ignoring the rest of the world. Other's always has higher weekly sales then America, and Japan is up there aswell.

@Seece, oh it's dying, it's hard to tell because the last couple weeks it had huge games realeases and the holidays is coming up so the numbers will obivously be high, so it's hard to tell now, but it's dying, I feel it in my bones :)

according to microsoft its not an accessory it will be integrated in all xbox 360s sold after natals launch and according to patcher it will only cost $50 which i dont believe i think it will be priced at $99. if it is integrated in all xbox 360s after natals launch and a huge marketing campaign is made for natal then i can see this giving xbox 360 wii like momentum but it wont outsell the wii.



 

 

everdom on 18 October 2009

Yeah that makes so much sense!!

Seriously the worst times to be on the internet are either after a price cut, or a big exclusive. The combination of the two for the PS3 at the moment is making it almost unbearable!



txrattlesnake on 18 October 2009

I think MS emphasizing the Elite in all their web advertising and lowering its price to compete with PS3 Slim made the xbox line look weak in comparison to the PS3 to some consumers and at the same time has made many forget that the Arcade model exists.