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Forums - Sales - Sony Wand and NATAL, minimum of success?

Kasz216 on 12 October 2009
ctalkeb said:
Kasz216 said:

Publicity is given to those worthy of publicity. 

Putting a bunch of publicity behind a bad product, inferior product or a product the people don't want only hurts your credibility.

Sure, but publicity is given dependant on ability to sell and who it can be sold to. Not quality in itself. Sometimes that publicity is aided by mainstream media smelling a story - again not dependant on "quality".

Actually the ability to make sure those things are mentioned certaintly are a sign of quality when it comes to mainstream writing.  Your writing has to be able to inspire those things.

I mean how do you think people decide what books get the big backing?  Picking names out of a hat?

 



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ctalkeb on 12 October 2009
Kasz216 said:

Actually the ability to make sure those things are mentioned certaintly are a sign of quality when it comes to mainstream writing.  Your writing has to be able to inspire those things.

To inspire media attention? Not really - to continue the examples used so far, both the da Vinci code and Titanic got as much write-up about "SCANDAL" and "CONTROVERSY" as they did about the products themselves. Doesn't work quite like that for a game console of course, but I think the point still stands. If you can get everybody to talk about you, then you've already won (wild generalization, I know).

This has gotten pretty fantastically OT, hasn't it...



Ail on 12 October 2009
Kasz216 said:
ctalkeb said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Not the same way they choose Dan Brown. Books and games have hurdles for the mainstream, but not the same hurdles, so comparing the two isn't the same.

I think they can be compared, but that depends on several factors I'm just not sure about. Did/does the Wii sell to a "new" demographic, or to the kind of audience that'll play a flash game when all their friends are talking about it?

Not my intent to bash on the Wii here - I realize that it's a perfectly capable console - I'm just wondering about where the people who didn't buy it for that came from.

The main difference between Dan Brown and someone like Hemmingway. has little to do with quality...

It has everything to do with artistic appeal.


Videogames are about as far removed from art as you can get right now.


In your mind your comparing Dan Brown and Hemmingway.... in reality your comparing Dan Brown and Ann Rice.

There is no great "artistic appeal" in videogames as of yet... making your comparison kinda pointless.

 

Though it's actually a lot harder to be Dan Brown then you give credit...  additionally most "Classics" sold REALLY well at the time they were released.  They were the Dan Brown's of there era.

As Almost Famous puts it.

"Show me any guy who ever said he didn't want to be popular, and I'll show you a scared guy. I've studied the entire history of music. Most of the time, the best stuff is the popular stuff. It's much safer to say popularity sucks, because that allows you to forgive yourself if you suck. And I don't forgive myself. Do you?"

They get the Hype because they're good... there are tons of people who wanna be Dan Brown but aren't.

Will Dan Brown be regarded as a Classic Author?  I doubt it.  But I also doubt anyone from our era will... and if they are... expect it to be a high selling writer.  Like the Harry Potter woman.

There are already a few classic writers for our era which I believe will be remembered in a century.

The first that comes to mind is Milan Kundera...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Ail on 12 October 2009
Kasz216 said:
ctalkeb said:
Kasz216 said:

No.  The problem is those other people aren't doing it as well.

They aren't as good at it.

I have just learned that companies do publicity because it's fun and they like throwing money out of the window.

Publicity is given to those worthy of publicity. 

Putting a bunch of publicity behind a bad product, inferior product or a product the people don't want only hurts your credibility.

Car companies have been doing that forever.......



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Kasz216 on 12 October 2009
ctalkeb said:
Kasz216 said:

Actually the ability to make sure those things are mentioned certaintly are a sign of quality when it comes to mainstream writing.  Your writing has to be able to inspire those things.

To inspire media attention? Not really - to continue the examples used so far, both the da Vinci code and Titanic got as much write-up about "SCANDAL" and "CONTROVERSY" as they did about the products themselves. Doesn't work quite like that for a game console of course, but I think the point still stands. If you can get everybody to talk about you, then you've already won (wild generalization, I know).

This has gotten pretty fantastically OT, hasn't it...

Actually... your point doesn't stand.

Controversy and Scandal are actually things most people LOVE to read about.  Knowing what your reader wants to read about is the sign of a good writer.

Outside that, you don't think there have been tons of scandelous and conterversal books that were written that didn't get publicity deals?

So once again... your just wrong.  If it was easy enough to just write something controversal... everyone would do it.


Heck, i'd write a book suggesting that Gandhi was a Serial Baby Rapist... i'd be the richest best sold author in the world!



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ctalkeb on 13 October 2009
Kasz216 said:

Actually... your point doesn't stand.

Controversy and Scandal are actually things most people LOVE to read about.  Knowing what your reader wants to read about is the sign of a good writer.

Outside that, you don't think there have been tons of scandelous and conterversal books that were written that didn't get publicity deals?

So once again... your just wrong.  If it was easy enough to just write something controversal... everyone would do it.


Heck, i'd write a book suggesting that Gandhi was a Serial Baby Rapist... i'd be the richest best sold author in the world!

Well, our lttle discussion hasn't met with complaints, so I'll continue:

I wasn't refering to the content when I wrote about controversy and scandal, but rather about events surrounding the products. As for knowing what your reader wants... Well, I'd say that genious more often comes from what your audience doesn't know they'll want to read/play/listen to/watch.

Basically, you would have a best seller on your hands if you got some big names/organisations to loudly and publically condemn your book. You might need a minimum level of writing, but more?



Kasz216 on 13 October 2009
ctalkeb said:
Kasz216 said:

Actually... your point doesn't stand.

Controversy and Scandal are actually things most people LOVE to read about.  Knowing what your reader wants to read about is the sign of a good writer.

Outside that, you don't think there have been tons of scandelous and conterversal books that were written that didn't get publicity deals?

So once again... your just wrong.  If it was easy enough to just write something controversal... everyone would do it.


Heck, i'd write a book suggesting that Gandhi was a Serial Baby Rapist... i'd be the richest best sold author in the world!

Well, our lttle discussion hasn't met with complaints, so I'll continue:

I wasn't refering to the content when I wrote about controversy and scandal, but rather about events surrounding the products. As for knowing what your reader wants... Well, I'd say that genious more often comes from what your audience doesn't know they'll want to read/play/listen to/watch.

Basically, you would have a best seller on your hands if you got some big names/organisations to loudly and publically condemn your book. You might need a minimum level of writing, but more?

Now your talking about artistic merit.  Not quality.

Additionally such a thing is the exact antithema of the games targeting the "hardcore" market.

If any system or game fell into said group... it would in fact be wii games mostly, when some "hardcore" give them a chance.


Also once again, there are plenty of people that have written controversal stuff... and mostly have been ignored... why?

Because the level of writing has to be good for those big names/orginizations to think people will take them seriously.

I'm a pretty decent writer.  My Gandhi Serial Baby Rapist book isn't going to be condemened by anyone.



LordTheNightKnight on 13 October 2009
Ail said:
Kasz216 said:
ctalkeb said:
Kasz216 said:

No.  The problem is those other people aren't doing it as well.

They aren't as good at it.

I have just learned that companies do publicity because it's fun and they like throwing money out of the window.

Publicity is given to those worthy of publicity. 

Putting a bunch of publicity behind a bad product, inferior product or a product the people don't want only hurts your credibility.

Car companies have been doing that forever.......

And that caught up to them in the last couple years.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Kasz216 on 13 October 2009
Ail said:
Kasz216 said:
ctalkeb said:
Kasz216 said:

No.  The problem is those other people aren't doing it as well.

They aren't as good at it.

I have just learned that companies do publicity because it's fun and they like throwing money out of the window.

Publicity is given to those worthy of publicity. 

Putting a bunch of publicity behind a bad product, inferior product or a product the people don't want only hurts your credibility.

Car companies have been doing that forever.......

Yeah... and American cars have been considered shit by everybody for... pretty much forever... and they rapidly lost market share.

Good point.



ctalkeb on 13 October 2009
Kasz216 said:

Now your talking about artistic merit.  Not quality.

Additionally such a thing is the exact antithema of the games targeting the "hardcore" market.

If any system or game fell into said group... it would in fact be wii games mostly, when some "hardcore" give them a chance.


Also once again, there are plenty of people that have written controversal stuff... and mostly have been ignored... why?

Because the level of writing has to be good for those big names/orginizations to think people will take them seriously.

I'm a pretty decent writer.  My Gandhi Serial Baby Rapist book isn't going to be condemened by anyone.

So you think "quality" only refers to production level, not artistic level? I disagree, but I don't really have a problem with it. Certainly makes it easier to understand where you're coming from.

"Hardcore" is marketing speak for "FPS" this generation, right? I don't really care about labels like that. You would be right in saying that they're not artistic, but there are plenty of games on all consoles that are, while still remaining fun. If there's a prize for having the most, it would probably go the PC, in all fairness.

I completely disagree that something needs (technical) quality to succeed though. Dan Brown or someone lie Paulo Coelho would be case-in-point, because their writing is, from a purely technical standpoint, bad. They are however both very simple to read, which, together with hype, helps for expanding your market.