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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo has lost the core market this generation

Also, you NEED a controller. Just because it could hypothetically be a controller other than the Wii Remote proves nothing, as the mobo, power supply, etc. could probably in theory be replaced with hacked together (illegal of course) substitutes, or even an emulator, right?

By your interpretation NOTHING is absolutely necessary.



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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theprof00 said:
wait! What did you want me to respond to? There was nothing else in that post!
Are you asking me to respond to the "most rejected" thing?

As for "most accepted", wouldn't the most sensible measure be the amount of the gaming community that is accepting it?  The NES wins by far in that case, right?  (The Wii certainly doesn't.) [by "amount" I meant "proportion", i.e. 85% of gamers or whatever]

And now you're talking about "best-designed", which, although I agree, is a very different thing.


That's two other things in that post.  The "most rejected" thing was another point underscoring how very wrong the "most accepted" thing is.  [edit:  Looking at it from another angle than my original point did.]



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

I just realized that my original quote said
"nothing has been quite as accepted as the wiimote"....
This definitely does not say it's the most accepted. It says nothing has produced the same kind of acceptance behavior. the quote is talking more about the way it was accepted and not how much it was accepted.

Additionally, it says this

"as an alternative".

As far as that is concerned, it is the most highly accepted alternative to a traditional controller



Final-Fan said:
Also, you NEED a controller. Just because it could hypothetically be a controller other than the Wii Remote proves nothing, as the mobo, power supply, etc. could probably in theory be replaced with hacked together (illegal of course) substitutes, or even an emulator, right?

By your interpretation NOTHING is absolutely necessary.

Senryoku

You can all it a 'factual idea' or a 'fact' or whatever you want.  The 'fact' of the matter is the Wii was built to interact with the Wiimote.  While some people have messed with the hardware and made it so you only needed a normal controller or even voice commands, that doesn't change the original interface the console launched with that requires the Wiimote.  You can't start a game or anything on the menu without a Wiimote.

 

@final

What substitutes? An emulator? An emulator needs a computer to run!!! There are several absolutely necessary parts for a computer to run. But there are more things needed depending on what you do with it. The difference between operation and functionality is the difference between peripheral and core necessity.

 

@Senryoku

You're talking about the final package where as I'm talking about the products that ALLOW IT TO RUN. You are talking about USAGE, and I am talking about RUNNING.

Take for example a pitching machine. It is designed to pitch baseballs or some other kind of ball. Without a ball, it cannot pitch, and therefore the USAGE is limited. However, if you had a pitching machine at your house, and I asked you if it worked, you wouldn't need a ball to tell me if it did. You can put the cord in the wall and hit the switch, that is RUNNING the machine.



theprof00 said:
I just realized that my original quote said
"nothing has been quite as accepted as the wiimote"....
This definitely does not say it's the most accepted. It says nothing has produced the same kind of acceptance behavior. the quote is talking more about the way it was accepted and not how much it was accepted.

Additionally, it says this

"as an alternative".

As far as that is concerned, it is the most highly accepted alternative to a traditional controller

"It was only this generation that a peripheral finally found it's place as an alternative. It's been 20+ years and no peripheral has been quite as accepted as the wiimote."

As an alternative?  A controller as an alternative to a controller?  If you really meant "as an alternative type of controller", you wrote it wrong.  

As for your other point, it's bullshit.  If nothing has been as accepted then that literally means it has been accepted more than anything else; i.e. it has been the most accepted.  (Nothing having been "quite" as accepted means the same thing unless you want to claim it implies only being the most-accepted by a small margin, which makes no difference to the point.)  

"the quote is talking more about the way it was accepted and not how much it was accepted.

If this is really what you meant, then you wrote it in completely the wrong way and no reasonable person with a standard understanding of English would have read it that way.  (I suppose that's redundant but whatever.)  

You should have written something like, "no peripheral has been accepted quite LIKE the wiimote", or, even better, "accepted in quite the same way that the wiimote has been".  

If you had written it that way, then (once I understood that you meant "peripheral" to mean "controller") I would have agreed with you, since no controller has been fought the way the Wii Remote has been.   



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Also, your use of the more general term "peripheral" shoots yourself in the foot. Here are some things that could be considered "peripherals":

Battery memory in game cartridges -- before which you couldn't save your game in a console. I think this took off pretty well.

Optical discs instead of cartridges (consoles having optical drives) -- the only console maker to buck the trend got hammered in sales and their next console used optical discs. The parallels to motion controls are considerable.

Online capability (consoles having modems/network connectivity)

etc.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:
Also, you NEED a controller. Just because it could hypothetically be a controller other than the Wii Remote proves nothing, as the mobo, power supply, etc. could probably in theory be replaced with hacked together (illegal of course) substitutes, or even an emulator, right?

By your interpretation NOTHING is absolutely necessary.

What substitutes? An emulator? An emulator needs a computer to run!!! There are several absolutely necessary parts for a computer to run. But there are more things needed depending on what you do with it. The difference between operation and functionality is the difference between peripheral and core necessity.

But they are DIFFERENT mobos and power supplies etc. than are in the Wii.  It's the same shell game you are using to say "Well I don't need the Wii Remote specifically, I can hack together two mice or whatever."  

It's the exact same thing and you call bullshit on me.  Can't you see what you are doing?   The Wii doesn't work as the game console that it is -- IT CANNOT OPERATE beyond turning the power on/off and inserting/ejecting discs -- without the Wii Remote or something substituting for it, just as it can't operate without its power supply or something substituting for it.  An emulator substitutes the entire Wii hardware and software (using PC hardware and software).  



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:
Also, you NEED a controller. Just because it could hypothetically be a controller other than the Wii Remote proves nothing, as the mobo, power supply, etc. could probably in theory be replaced with hacked together (illegal of course) substitutes, or even an emulator, right?

By your interpretation NOTHING is absolutely necessary.

What substitutes? An emulator? An emulator needs a computer to run!!! There are several absolutely necessary parts for a computer to run. But there are more things needed depending on what you do with it. The difference between operation and functionality is the difference between peripheral and core necessity.

But they are DIFFERENT mobos and power supplies etc. than are in the Wii.  It's the same shell game you are using to say "Well I don't need the Wii Remote specifically, I can hack together two mice or whatever."  

It's the exact same thing and you call bullshit on me.  Can't you see what you are doing?   The Wii doesn't work as the game console that it is -- IT CANNOT OPERATE beyond turning the power on/off and inserting/ejecting discs -- without the Wii Remote or something substituting for it, just as it can't operate without its power supply or something substituting for it.  An emulator substitutes the entire Wii hardware and software (using PC hardware and software).  

IT CANNOT OPERATE beyond turning the power on/off and inserting/ejecting discs

that is the whole point darling. It operates. The keyword that you yourself used is "beyond". That is what a peripheral does.

Let me give you that definition again:

A peripheral is a device attached to a host computer but not part of it whose primary functionality is dependent upon the host, and can therefore be considered as expanding the host's capabilities, while not forming part of the system's core architecture.

Attached to a host computer, but not part of it. It's primary functionality is dependant upon the host. (The wiimote is useless without a wii) It expands the host's capabilities (and here's where that word "beyond" fits) while at the same time, it's not part of the core architecture.

also, the emulator is dependant on the computer ie the host.Without a computer, the emulator is useless.



Final-Fan said:

"It was only this generation that a peripheral finally found it's place as an alternative. It's been 20+ years and no peripheral has been quite as accepted as the wiimote."

As an alternative?  A controller as an alternative to a controller?  If you really meant "as an alternative type of controller", you wrote it wrong.  

As for your other point, it's bullshit.  If nothing has been as accepted then that literally means it has been accepted more than anything else; i.e. it has been the most accepted.  (Nothing having been "quite" as accepted means the same thing unless you want to claim it implies only being the most-accepted by a small margin, which makes no difference to the point.)  

"the quote is talking more about the way it was accepted and not how much it was accepted.

If this is really what you meant, then you wrote it in completely the wrong way and no reasonable person with a standard understanding of English would have read it that way.  (I suppose that's redundant but whatever.)  

You should have written something like, "no peripheral has been accepted quite LIKE the wiimote", or, even better, "accepted in quite the same way that the wiimote has been".  

If you had written it that way, then (once I understood that you meant "peripheral" to mean "controller") I would have agreed with you, since no controller has been fought the way the Wii Remote has been.   

Yes I did mean another kind of controller.sorry

The word "as" is both a qualifier of quantity and quality. It can be interpreted either way.

to the same degree, amount, or extent; similarly; equally: I don't think it's as hot and humid today as it was yesterday.

2. for example; for instance: Some flowers, as the rose, require special care.
3. thought to be or considered to be: the square as distinct from the rectangle; the church as separate from the state.
4. in the manner (directed, agreed, promised, etc.): She sang as promised. He left as agreed.
Final-Fan said:

Also, your use of the more general term "peripheral" shoots yourself in the foot. Here are some things that could be considered "peripherals":

Battery memory in game cartridges -- before which you couldn't save your game in a console. I think this took off pretty well.

Optical discs instead of cartridges (consoles having optical drives) -- the only console maker to buck the trend got hammered in sales and their next console used optical discs. The parallels to motion controls are considerable.

Online capability (consoles having modems/network connectivity)

etc.

I agree that those are all peripherals. But like I just showed, "as" can be used as a qualifier of quality.

Final-Fan said:
theprof00 said:
wait! What did you want me to respond to? There was nothing else in that post!
Are you asking me to respond to the "most rejected" thing?

As for "most accepted", wouldn't the most sensible measure be the amount of the gaming community that is accepting it?  The NES wins by far in that case, right?  (The Wii certainly doesn't.) [by "amount" I meant "proportion", i.e. 85% of gamers or whatever]

And now you're talking about "best-designed", which, although I agree, is a very different thing.


That's two other things in that post.  The "most rejected" thing was another point underscoring how very wrong the "most accepted" thing is.  [edit:  Looking at it from another angle than my original point did.]

I showed you that I never said "most accepted". I said "as accepted".

 

 

 



You're using the definition of "peripheral" as it relates to PCs. In console gaming, we use the word "peripheral" to differentiate between a controller that comes with the console, and a bonus controller that is only used for a few games.

The Wii remote and nunchuck are the main controller.

The Wii peripherals are the Balance Board, the Wii Wheel, the Wii Zapper, the Classic Controller, Wii Motion +, DDR dance pads, maracas, GH/RB guitars, drums, and microphones, and the Active Life power pad.

And most of those are peripherals in the sense that they actually have to be attached to the Wii remote itself.

Yes, any other input could have been used in an alternate history, but that doesn't matter. A TV can be used without a remote. A Wii can't. Nothing can be done on the Wii whatsoever without the remote that comes in the box.