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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Namco Dev EXPLAINS why TOV was a Timed 360 Exclusive (SHOCK)!

Staude on 16 September 2009

lol. Sony are pretty clever.. I mean if sony hadn't demanded additional content it'd be the same game, but still a year later. It's understandable that they require additional content for old ports (I thought that fact was common knowledge btw.)

This is microsofts own fault for moneyhatting and namcos for accepting the moneyhat.



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heruamon on 16 September 2009
tedsteriscool said:
heruamon said:
Look at SO4 for example...the game sold 530,000 copies...$30 something million in sales...so just how much did it cost to develop the game? Are you telling me M$ give them THAT much money...I doubt it...more like M$ provide seed money to Tri-Ace and SE...on the flipside...look at how MORE copies of Lost Planet sold on the 360, over the PS3...are you telling me they didn't make out better on the 360---1.8 Million vs 460K...hmmmmm....

Yeah but Lost Planet had an immense gap between versions (and PS3 version was STILL inferior!).

And SC4 or DMC?  If people want to pin-point to JRPGs...I'd say yes...I don't understand why M$ tried to focus on it...but in general...it cost less to develop a 360 game, so if you're going to get better sales WW on a game...a smart business would pick the best producer.  Look at Rockstar making Agent exclusive...eventhough they are going to lose out more than double their sales.  There are finer line in business then the simple perceptions of fanboys.



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gustave154 on 16 September 2009

cool



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rccsetzer on 16 September 2009

I think this marks the end of MS J-RPG strategy. From now on, Project Natal will be the focus to attract Japanese pepople. They could do a kind of evolution from what Team Ninja has been presenting to us with Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 (the boobies thing) : a game where you have to arouse a virtual woman with your bare hands.



starterman1989 on 16 September 2009
rccsetzer said:

I think this marks the end of MS J-RPG strategy. From now on, Project Natal will be the focus to attract Japanese pepople. They could do a kind of evolution from what Team Ninja has been presenting to us with Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 (the boobies thing) : a game where you have to arouse a virtual woman with your bare hands.

Dream Club + will be the perfect launch title for Natal in Japan. ;p



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HanzoTheRazor on 16 September 2009

@Xxain

"I want somebody to Xxplain to me why SONY are dickheads and assholes for demanding that developers add incentive to there year old late ports that they want to re-release for full price??????"

Me too! It seems being a fanboy gives u tunnel vision.



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HanzoTheRazor on 16 September 2009

@kowenicki says; "@gilgamesh lol... sony and smart business do not belong on the same page, nevermind in the same sentence these days.

Yeh, they got burnt, but we all get much stronger with pain, and boy have SONY made a huge come back with the PS3! My hats off. Also, they still are the number 1 console gaming company ever and are the only reason M$ even got into the business in the first place, who I might add has emulated SONY's business plan from the beginnig.



Playing and finishing games first>>>>>>>>>>Then talking!

Opinions are subjective and just like moods, can change.

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Reasonable on 16 September 2009
Grey21 said:
Sony needs to change their attitude, instead of waiting for the port and forcing developers to make their version better they should support developers in the same way Microsoft is doing. Because western developers will get the same deal and they care a lot less about Japan so it's even a better for them. I'm starting to wonder if games like Risen, Tropico 3 and Divinity 2 won't immediatly come to PS3 just because Sony is being an ass. These are small developers but they make good games and Sony should support them, Sony supporters say they are the only company that really cares about gaming so let them proof it.

How, if there is an exclusivity contract, can Sony affect anything?  We're talking about a situation where MS has provided incentives for a timed excuslive and the developer has agreed.  It's got nothing to do with Sony's attridute - it's the developer making the decision.  Once the contract is signed Sony is shut out for 12 months essentially.

Also, you need to look closer at each company.  Sony invests in 1st party development - that's where it puts its money for the most part.  MS has much less 1st party and spends more on 3rd party investments.

Both Sony and MS are suppoting their consoles, but they are taking different approaches.

 



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Reasonable on 16 September 2009
heruamon said:
Reasonable said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Reasonable said:
Lot of humour of the unintentional sort in this thread. I'll take the article with a pinch of salt, but assuming for a moment it's true it only confirms what has been fairly apparent for a while:

1) MS paid to ensure it got jRPG support and to use a 'restriction of availability' ploy to slow PS3 adoption in Japan. Fair business ploy, although personally I don't myself feel this tactic is fair to the consumer

2) the developer merrily took the money and concocted their own plan - we'll actually use this to cover 360 and PS3, cutting costs. We'll be down a little initially when first sales are 360 only but make it back when the title lands on PS3. Again, fair enough, although again personally I think they were a little cheeky with this

3) Sony, seeing MS approach and knowing they probably couldn't combat it directly, put in place a policy to ensure that when timed exclusives did land on PS3, the developer had to add new content. Their stick is that the developer (in this case) is now caught with a game that's not sold enough on 360 only, and needs a PS3 release - they also have the clear fact the developer initially contracted with MS for timed rights. The result, the developer adds the new content.


So in the end you've got MS suiting themselves trying to deny access to certain titles to people who want to use a different console, the developer trying to play the two companies (MS and Sony) to their advantage and getting caught somewhat with a bunch of unhappy 360 folk and Sony's new content policy, and Sony getting a game later than they'd like but with new content that they hope will attract enough gamers.

From a consumer standpoint it stinks really, with 360 owners essentially buying titles that will have additional content added at a later stage and PS3 owners getting a richer version 12 months later.

Personally I think games should be exclusive or not. None of this timed nonsense. If Namco want to take funding from MS then at least give them a true exclusive. If they didn't think sales would be enough on 360 they should have gracefully refused the timed offer and simply released the exact same game on 360/PS3 on the same day.

What I find most amazing is people seeing either Sony, MS or Namco as the guilty party vs the other two depending upon their individual console bias. All three have, in different ways, conducted business in a manner that essentially penalizes the customer.

This is true Reasonable, but Microsoft was the only company that truly had nothing to lose, because they had to bring more variety to the 360 and try to win over Japan in Sony's time of neglect. They held fast and are now Sony gets to enjoying easy console sales, whilst ignoring the Japanese audience for god knows how long (which is one of the reasons the consoles sold slowly in the first place).

Couple of points, and remember I'm still taking these comments with a pinch of sale in terms of whether this is an isolated case of something more widespread and probably related to titles like SO:4, etc.  But again, assuming for the moment the comments refer to a more widespread practice:

 

1) I don't think Sony was particularly ignoring the Japanese audience, it simply wasn't willing to get into a bidding war.  MS apparently tried hard (using cash and additional support incentives) to deny Sony access to certain titles.  Sony couldn't make a title like ToV available to PS3 owners if MS tied it up with a 12 month exclusivity, could they?

2) MS approach I believe stands a chance of backfiring in Japan.  Essentially, the approach outlined here translates to me as MS effectively hiring companies who were willing to become like temporary 2nd party developers - i.e. focus on us and give only us a game for 12 months.  The reason I could see this backfiring in Japan is that it was unlikely 360 would gain enough traction from this to then withstand the backlash as titles started to appear one after the other on PS3 with extra content.  I suspect in Japan many gamers are coming to the conclusion it's better to wait for the PS3 version.

 

So I don't see MS as 'holding fast'.  I don't think they should have been induldging in signing up timed exclusives at all.  ToV should either have been fully exclusive to 360 or should have launched on both consoles at the same time.

Sony, I don't see in any way as the 'guilty' party here.  They are faced with a competitor using cash incentives and simply demand that if a title comes late to PS3 is has to have some new content.  I believe MS themselves have a similar policy.

In the end MS tried hard, I'd argue too hard using too aggresive a Western approach, to break into Japan.  In the end they probably made some short term gains in console sales and somewhat inconveniencing Sony, but I get the feeling that in the longer term this approach is going to have made more of a bad impression in Japan vs a good one.

I know hindsight is cheap, but rather than timed exclusives if I was MS I would only have chased full exclusives and looked to fund new IP specific for my console in the region.  I know MS did fund new IP as well as secure timed exclusives, and I actually salute that, I think that's a true 'putting your money where your mouth is' approach.

But trying to buy off developers to delay release on another console to force consumers towards their console - it's fair in business, but it's not an approach I condone or look fondly upon.

On another note - I saw SO:4 is now supposed to be launching on PS3, I wonder whether that will have new content or whether SE will get a pass from Sony so long as FFXIII remains exclusive in Japan?  Now that's some potential Sony orientated machinations you might want to ponder if you do want to look for Sony as 'the bad guy' - which is what you seem to want to do.

 

 

 

I said it a long time ago...M4 never hada chance in Japan...and why would they want it?  Sure, it's a sizable market, but the best selling genre ONLY sells in Japan...PAL and NA don't buy JRPGs in mass...they don't have the appeal.  I certianly don't think M$ "bribe" anybody...they made investments...if they hadn't, sony would have used their influence to stop developers from working on 360 games...but that okay business practices.  If you're a Developer in Japan...and Sony tells you either gimme an exclusive or fuck you, you can't sell on my console...that's sounds like some thug shit to me...but maybe I'm seeing it wrong.  M4 planted some seed money to make it harder for Sony...and it didn't seem to take much...since they STILL didn't break even on several projects, and needed to take it to the PS3 anyway. 

I know where you're coming from, but I think MS kind of have to make the effort in Japan, at least in some form, as they continue to grow their penetration in Europe.  But if I was them I'd divert funds for things like timed exclusives of this sort to Natal projects and to Western focused projects and settle for same day multi-platform releases of titles like ToV in the future.

They have a toehold in Japan at best right now, and clearly they're not going to expand that much further this gen so I say they should settle for the toehold and focus elsewhere (while keeping their toe firmly in the door, obviously).

 



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HanzoTheRazor on 16 September 2009

@bonkers555

"Number one gaming company?  Correct me if I'm wrong isn't the Wii and 360 ahead of the PS3 right now? Smart business?  How many billions have Sony lost since the PS3 launch?"

LOL...! Well if u wanna go by all time proffits, Nintendo is the No:1 console gaming company. But, in my eyes, and many others, SONY Is still the number one, as they hold the crown for the most systems sold ever. Had the 1st successful CD rom plaform, 1st DVD platform, 1st Blu-ray platform, 1st multimedia platform and totally pushed console gameing to where it is today. Without SONY's influence M$ would most likely have never had gotten involved, especially with Nintendo's blase approch towards internet gaming.

"Smart buisiness? How many billions have Sony lost since the PS3 launch?"

"Shock" ... Not as much as M$ is the red for the original Xbox and Xbox family!



Playing and finishing games first>>>>>>>>>>Then talking!

Opinions are subjective and just like moods, can change.

TOP 12: Deus Ex, Shadow Man, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturn, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, Metroid Prime, Zelda (series), Uncharted (series), FF Tactics, Persona (series), Demons Souls, Vagrant Story.

MOST WANTED: Deus Ex: Human Revolution, The Last Guardian, ICO/Shadow OTC HD