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Forums - General - The fight over Darwin - Teaching evolution in schools

zexen_lowe on 19 September 2009

To be honest, I'm kinda baffled at the situation that's posted here of the US and Canada. Of course, I'm totally ignorant of the situation of those countries, but I can't help but compare it to Argentina's. Here, evolution is accepted like a fact, and it's taught everywhere, secular, christian, jewish, all schools equal. I've never seen anyone question evolution, it's accepted as much as the gravitational theory.

I mean, in history I've been taught of the homo habilis, homo erectus and homo sapiens normally, and when the biology professor explained the evolutionary process nobody raised an objection at all.

To be honest, I never had even heard of intelligent desing or creationism before surfing actively in the Internet. I'm sure that (luckily) no one has ever tried it be taught in schools.

And I live in a country where the church isn't separated from the State....




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appolose on 19 September 2009
Khuutra said:
appolose said:
Khuutra said:

Okay hold up

Hold up

Let's say I take a breed of dog and from these dogs over hundreds of accelerated generations I breed them into animals the size of deer, which bear no outward resemblance to their ancestors and require very different kinds of nutrition in order to function.

Is that evolution?

Likely not (although the different nutritional needs may imply something more than just little outward resemblence).

I do think that, given your scenario, you can get an animal to have considerably different looking descendents.  What I do not think is that random mutation of a gene can produce every other genetic blueprint (bird-to-fish, for example).  In other words (perhaps less accurate ones), I believe there is a "limit" to what random mutation can do.

In what sense is there a limit?

As to the second.... How do you reject it? How can you, as a Christian, justify the rejection of the working knowledge of man? How can you hold to literal Young Earth Creationism?

The working knowledge of man has been wrong many times before, so there is nothing inherently wrong with that.  I hold to literal YEC because I hold to the Bible, and I hold to the Bible because of a philisophical conclusion I have come to.

Actually, I think we've discussed this topc before, haven't we?  If your still interested, you can find my reasoning in the huge debate I had with Finalfan in the "atheist debaptised" thread.



Okami

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Khuutra on 19 September 2009
appolose said:
Khuutra said:

In what sense is there a limit?

As to the second.... How do you reject it? How can you, as a Christian, justify the rejection of the working knowledge of man? How can you hold to literal Young Earth Creationism?

The working knowledge of man has been wrong many times before, so there is nothing inherently wrong with that.  I hold to literal YEC because I hold to the Bible, and I hold to the Bible because of a philisophical conclusion I have come to.

Actually, I think we've discussed this topc before, haven't we?  If your still interested, you can find my reasoning in the huge debate I had with Finalfan in the "atheist debaptised" thread.

If it was with me, I like to think that I would remember it. I will make a deal with you, though: if you will give me the philosophical conclusion as to why you hold the Bible to b true, I will tell you my (Biblical) basis for rejecting it as a book of literal truth.



appolose on 19 September 2009
Rath said:

Your response to my post was not only very short but I couldn't make sense of it. You're saying that the fossil record is observable evidence but at the same time it is not observable evidence? That doesn't make any sense.

Hmm, the majority of my post seems to have disappeared. 

I did respond to each section, but now it's gone.

Is Ubuntu known for having general document issues, anyone?  My laptop is always screwing me up.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

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Khuutra on 19 September 2009

I do remember a topic called "atheists debaptized", come to think...



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MasterZack on 19 September 2009

Of course!! Every school (even the religious ones) should teach the Darwin's evolution theroy.



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Final-Fan on 19 September 2009
Khuutra said:
I do remember a topic called "atheists debaptized", come to think...

http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=66001

I'd forgotten all about it.  IIRC I saw he'd responded like a month ago, but I was getting burnt out on the debate and procrastinated and then forgot it existed.  

I might have to reply now.   



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appolose on 19 September 2009
Khuutra said:
appolose said:
Khuutra said:

In what sense is there a limit?

As to the second.... How do you reject it? How can you, as a Christian, justify the rejection of the working knowledge of man? How can you hold to literal Young Earth Creationism?

The working knowledge of man has been wrong many times before, so there is nothing inherently wrong with that.  I hold to literal YEC because I hold to the Bible, and I hold to the Bible because of a philisophical conclusion I have come to.

Actually, I think we've discussed this topc before, haven't we?  If your still interested, you can find my reasoning in the huge debate I had with Finalfan in the "atheist debaptised" thread.

If it was with me, I like to think that I would remember it. I will make a deal with you, though: if you will give me the philosophical conclusion as to why you hold the Bible to b true, I will tell you my (Biblical) basis for rejecting it as a book of literal truth.

It was some time ago, and it ended fairly quickly, so you probably wouldn't remember it (I only did because of a case of  sudden deja vu).

Before I do give you my conclusion, I need to clear up the notion (that many other Christians do indeed hold) of literal truth: I only take the parts that are meant to be literal as literal.  I acknowledge that there are metaphors in other places in the Bible, but I don't think Genesis 1 is one of them.

With that out of the way, my reason for believing that the Bible is true is...

It has been revealed to me, and I cannot doubt it.
See the debate to understand how the heck I arrived at that.

 



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
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Khuutra on 19 September 2009
appolose said:
Khuutra said:

If it was with me, I like to think that I would remember it. I will make a deal with you, though: if you will give me the philosophical conclusion as to why you hold the Bible to b true, I will tell you my (Biblical) basis for rejecting it as a book of literal truth.

It was some time ago, and it ended fairly quickly, so you probably wouldn't remember it (I only did because of a case of  sudden deja vu).

Before I do give you my conclusion, I need to clear up the notion (that many other Christians do indeed hold) of literal truth: I only take the parts that are meant to be literal as literal.  I acknowledge that there are metaphors in other places in the Bible, but I don't think Genesis 1 is one of them.

With that out of the way, my reason for believing that the Bible is true is...

It has been revealed to me, and I cannot doubt it.
See the debate to understand how the heck I arrived at that.

I don't need to. What you're talking about is revelation - you believe God spoke to you?

EDIT:

@final-fan

JESUS HELLNATION JEHOSEPHAT



appolose on 19 September 2009
Final-Fan said:
Khuutra said:
I do remember a topic called "atheists debaptized", come to think...

http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=66001

I'd forgotten all about it.  IIRC I saw he'd responded like a month ago, but I was getting burnt out on the debate and procrastinated and then forgot it existed.  

I might have to reply now.   

...oh...no...

Well, if you want to go back into that endless deathtrap... ugh, I can't stand the thought of it.  I was really burning out too :/



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz