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Forums - Sony - Haze sucked because Free Radical couldn't program for PS3

gergroy said:

...snip...

So, this article confuses me.  First of all, if you were having so many problems with the ps3 version of the game, why drop the 360 version, you would think they would of dropped the ps3 version.  Second of all, why do some developers have no issues programming for the ps3 and others do

I don't think it really boils down to being lazy, as much as intelligence and skill.  Free Radical had some talent in game design (their original core team was a splinter from rare who worked on goldeneye).  Another factor could have been time.  Obviously titles like Killzone and Heavy Rain have had huge development cycles, but Haze wasn't that lucky.  Do you think they were too rushed to get it out? 

My question for you guys, do you think Free Radical didn't have the talent to be capable of making a great game?  or did they just not have enough time to make their game great?

The answer to the first bolded question very well could be that they decided not to go head-to-head with Halo and Gears... had they managed to create a best-of-breed FPS on the PS3, their sales could have been really strong, but you have to have a really compelling FPS (such as COD X) on the 360 to attract FPS players away from the endless Halo and Gears online matches.

The answer to the second question is that the question is based on a false assumption... that some developers have no issues programming for the PS3.  I don't believe any game that demands high-performance from the PS3 was a cinch to write... the developers had to "wrap their heads" around the out-of-the-ordinary PS3 hardware model to really make their games shine.  Any dev that built a kick-butt HD game on the PS3 that said "oh, it was just as easy as developing for the PC" is full of bull-pucky.  I'm guessing that the Haze team didn't really have a solid handle on how to make a killer FPS, and having to spend a lot of time focused on game performance possibly robbed them of the time they needed to focus on polishing gameplay.

 



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there still could be a timesplitters, as Crytek saved Free Radical from complete closure. I assume that buyout came with the the Timesplitters IP.

As far as people saying that trouble programming doesn't affect voice work or story, it can, especially voicework. Story elements may need to be cut so that the game can ship on time and lower quality voice actors may need to be found if you blow your whole budget on making the game work right.



@feylik

wow, because maybe they couldn't afford decent voice actors after they spent so much time and money on programming and they are limited by a budget. sorry to be rude, but that wasn't difficult to figure out.



crumas2 said:
gergroy said:

...snip...

So, this article confuses me.  First of all, if you were having so many problems with the ps3 version of the game, why drop the 360 version, you would think they would of dropped the ps3 version.  Second of all, why do some developers have no issues programming for the ps3 and others do

I don't think it really boils down to being lazy, as much as intelligence and skill.  Free Radical had some talent in game design (their original core team was a splinter from rare who worked on goldeneye).  Another factor could have been time.  Obviously titles like Killzone and Heavy Rain have had huge development cycles, but Haze wasn't that lucky.  Do you think they were too rushed to get it out? 

My question for you guys, do you think Free Radical didn't have the talent to be capable of making a great game?  or did they just not have enough time to make their game great?

The answer to the first bolded question very well could be that they decided not to go head-to-head with Halo and Gears... had they managed to create a best-of-breed FPS on the PS3, their sales could have been really strong, but you have to have a really compelling FPS (such as COD X) on the 360 to attract FPS players away from the endless Halo and Gears online matches.

The answer to the second question is that the question is based on a false assumption... that some developers have no issues programming for the PS3.  I don't believe any game that demands high-performance from the PS3 was a cinch to write... the developers had to "wrap their heads" around the out-of-the-ordinary PS3 hardware model to really make their games shine.  Any dev that built a kick-butt HD game on the PS3 that said "oh, it was just as easy as developing for the PC" is full of bull-pucky.  I'm guessing that the Haze team didn't really have a solid handle on how to make a killer FPS, and having to spend a lot of time focused on game performance possibly robbed them of the time they needed to focus on polishing gameplay.

 

Makes sense.  I still think that if FR could of hypothetically made a better game on the 360 though it would of been a better choice.  Of course, I don't know what went down and probably never will.  I think there were some bad choices made by management of the company, which makes me happy that they were bought out.  Now they can focus on making good games!



theprof00 said:
@feylik

wow, because maybe they couldn't afford decent voice actors after they spent so much time and money on programming and they are limited by a budget. sorry to be rude, but that wasn't difficult to figure out.

Wow... thanks for noticing that Feylic is spelt with a "C" at the end. Sorry to be rude, but it's kind of written write next to my post...

Honestly, have you even played Haze? In some parts it sounds like they just kept the voices from the preliminary scene tests done by a stand in. Voice actors aren't free, but they aren't gonna eat away your development costs unless you try and get some famous hollywood actor. Look up how much the main guy from GTA IV got paid. He was the main character, of a hugely anticipated sequal, with tons of dialogue and he didn't get all that much.

*Here, I found a link for you, http://www.destructoid.com/niko-bellic-voice-actor-eating-ramen-noodles-for-breakfast-lunch-dinner-86902.phtml

Do you really think a couple voice actors would have broken their budget?



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Don't be a grammar/spelling nazi. (they are known for using it to cover up for something)
Not my fault you have a made up name

Anyways 100k for voicework is a pretty good amount. He made about 1000$ per day working twice a week for a few hours a day.

anyhoo, they probably ended up spending about 500k total in voice work.

Now Haze, a game with a smaller budget, probably already over the cap from problems with development. It's no wonder that other things are going to take a hit in the quality department. Advertising, polishing, and others.. you also have to remember that it's not just the voice actors they have to pay, they need to rent a studio, have people implement it into the game, optimize the quality and sync every line. Sure the actor is only a bit more comparatively, but maybe they were already spending money they didn't have.

I'm not saying they were, and I'm not saying they aren't making excuses. But it's obvious that when you spend most of your money on one thing, you have to spend less on other things.



Haze was perfectly fine from a tech standpoint.

Its design, and story, was utterly bland and uninspiring. That's really all that was wrong with it. I finished it as well. I said "meh" a couple times, and have never looked at it again.

The vehicle physics were bad too. Otherwise... technologically... seemed fine to me. The characters actually looked really good. The levels were really lame though. Would have been the same on any platform -- it had nothing at all to do with the PS3. They're just looking for excuses to hype their new stuff up, after their "flop" (which has actually sold quite a number of units, at this point).



 

I don't see how coding issues effected a horrible script, weak level design, and other things. Devs on ps2 had no issues with this.

Today, tech isn't an inhibiting factor for game design in FPSes.



@makingmusic
say your budget includes all the stuff, and 60% is for programming.
Now, say the engine, or environment or whatever it's called ends up taking up 85% instead of 60%. Obviously everything else is going to hit the fan.



theprof00 said:
@makingmusic
say your budget includes all the stuff, and 60% is for programming.
Now, say the engine, or environment or whatever it's called ends up taking up 85% instead of 60%. Obviously everything else is going to hit the fan.


Lol.  You think FR fired all their designers, so they could hire more programmers to work on the PS3, eh?

I thought it was "common knowledge" that its actually art/resources that drives modern dev costs?  Or are those stories about how Wii games are dirt cheap to make all a sham?