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Forums - General - Religious Man left his Daughter to die

Kasz216 on 02 August 2009
MontanaHatchet said:
Kasz, your analogy is piss poor and you know it. Stop trying to drag it on.

Contributions made in place of a gaming budget would be meager at best. A couple hundred dollars, perhaps. That would help, but it wouldn't make any kind of permanent change. It would just provide temporary relief for a couple people. And besides, what's to say these people would starve and die anyways? That's a pathetic assumption. Perhaps people in third world countries are starving and dying, but people in the U.S.? I seriously doubt it's a large number. There are tons of homeless shelters, and I've met a lot of homeless who refuse to even get help (and let's not forget the assumption that they're homeless at no fault of their own).

Find a better analogy please.

Ok.  Instead of homeless.  Giving money to the international food bank to feed people starving in third world countries.

Something like a $100 dollars can actually do a lot in the third world.

Regardless EVERYBODY fails to comit actions that lead to others deaths.

EVERYBODY makes mistakes.

 

This man made a mistake.  HIS child died... and he's going to be punished for the crime of being stupid... and nothing else.

Is it his fault he was stupid?   Probably not... he didn't do this out of some act of malice to the child afterall.

 

Should a man be thrown in jail because he accidently killed his child by getting a dose of medicine wrong?  Because he mistook mumps for flu?  Because she hit her head and he thought she had just a bump, but she had small internal head hemorage?

Accepting bullshit alternative medicine is something that needs to be done as long as healthcare is left to the parent.



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MontanaHatchet on 02 August 2009
Kasz216 said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Kasz, your analogy is piss poor and you know it. Stop trying to drag it on.

Contributions made in place of a gaming budget would be meager at best. A couple hundred dollars, perhaps. That would help, but it wouldn't make any kind of permanent change. It would just provide temporary relief for a couple people. And besides, what's to say these people would starve and die anyways? That's a pathetic assumption. Perhaps people in third world countries are starving and dying, but people in the U.S.? I seriously doubt it's a large number. There are tons of homeless shelters, and I've met a lot of homeless who refuse to even get help (and let's not forget the assumption that they're homeless at no fault of their own).

Find a better analogy please.

Ok.  Instead of homeless.  Giving money to the international food bank to feed people starving in third world countries.

Something like a $100 dollars can actually do a lot in the third world.

Regardless EVERYBODY fails to comit actions that lead to others deaths.

EVERYBODY makes mistakes.

 

This man made a mistake.  HIS child died... and he's going to be punished for the crime of being stupid... and nothing else.

Is it his fault he was stupid?   Probably not... he didn't do this out of some act of malice to the child afterall.

 

Should a man be thrown in jail because he accidently killed his child by getting a dose of medicine wrong?  Because he mistook mumps for flu?  Because she hit her head and he thought she had just a bump, but she had small internal head hemorage?

Accepting bullshit alternative medicine is something that needs to be done as long as healthcare is left to the parent.

Okay, but you're forgetting some very basic things. This person is his daughter. When she became his daughter, he became her guardian. He has immediate control over her life, and it is his duty to look after her. In this case, she was suffering, and he refused to take her for care. There are billions of suffering people in the world, but he doesn't know them, nor is he obligated to look after them. This is a completely different case and you know it. There are laws in the U.S., and he broke them. There's no law that says that he's forced to give to charity.

Stop pulling this bullshit.



 

 

Khuutra on 02 August 2009

That is heart-breaking. I mean, that is really tragic.

Believe it or not, I feel terrible for the girl's family who killed her - God knows they didn't mean to, and now they have to carry that with them for the rest of their lives.



Slimebeast on 02 August 2009
Kasz216 said:
FootballFan said:
If i had enough money, i would donate to charity. I just think it should be a bigger priority of the people who can afford to give and still have the luxuries such as the house in every country and the 3 Sports cars they own over mine.

I probably give a higher percentage of my little wealth than they do anyway...

That's still bullshit made up to make yourself feel better about it.

What other people do is completly irrelevent to what you do.

At the end of the day you could be saving peoples lives and you aren't... and unlike this guy.  It's out of selfishness.

Rather then a mistake in doing the wrong thing that you think is the right thing.

Everyone acts out of selfishness, some people in fact more then others.

However that doesn't make any amount of selfishness right.


This is a core-argument that far too seldom is brought up in political debates about taxes and sharing of wealth for example.

It's all a big illusion that most people live in. It really pisses me off that people aren't even aware of the fact that the vast majority are selfish - and that it's in fact natural to be selfish.

Therefore we get many twisted and hypcritical debates about taxes, wellfare, immigration and whatnot, usually with people who've put themselves on moral high horses demanding that others should be un-selfish and share their wealth or make some other kind of sacrifice.



Kasz216 on 02 August 2009
MontanaHatchet said:
Kasz216 said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Kasz, your analogy is piss poor and you know it. Stop trying to drag it on.

Contributions made in place of a gaming budget would be meager at best. A couple hundred dollars, perhaps. That would help, but it wouldn't make any kind of permanent change. It would just provide temporary relief for a couple people. And besides, what's to say these people would starve and die anyways? That's a pathetic assumption. Perhaps people in third world countries are starving and dying, but people in the U.S.? I seriously doubt it's a large number. There are tons of homeless shelters, and I've met a lot of homeless who refuse to even get help (and let's not forget the assumption that they're homeless at no fault of their own).

Find a better analogy please.

Ok.  Instead of homeless.  Giving money to the international food bank to feed people starving in third world countries.

Something like a $100 dollars can actually do a lot in the third world.

Regardless EVERYBODY fails to comit actions that lead to others deaths.

EVERYBODY makes mistakes.

 

This man made a mistake.  HIS child died... and he's going to be punished for the crime of being stupid... and nothing else.

Is it his fault he was stupid?   Probably not... he didn't do this out of some act of malice to the child afterall.

 

Should a man be thrown in jail because he accidently killed his child by getting a dose of medicine wrong?  Because he mistook mumps for flu?  Because she hit her head and he thought she had just a bump, but she had small internal head hemorage?

Accepting bullshit alternative medicine is something that needs to be done as long as healthcare is left to the parent.

Okay, but you're forgetting some very basic things. This person is his daughter. When she became his daughter, he became her guardian. He has immediate control over her life, and it is his duty to look after her. In this case, she was suffering, and he refused to take her for care. There are billions of suffering people in the world, but he doesn't know them, nor is he obligated to look after them. This is a completely different case and you know it. There are laws in the U.S., and he broke them. There's no law that says that he's forced to give to charity.

Stop pulling this bullshit.

No he didn't refuse to take her for care.

He chose a different form of care that proved ineffective.

He's no different then those people who refuse lukemia and try to cure cancer with tiger balm and clove.

 



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MontanaHatchet on 02 August 2009

Whatever he believed, he broke the law. He didn't care for his daughter whom he had legal responsibility for. We're not arguing morality or intent. This is a legal case, so we're arguing what the law is. Faith based healing isn't against the law, but it certainly doesn't work. And what is against the law is not taking someone for care when you have legal responsibility over them. Letting her die an easily preventable death is certainly against the law.

Maybe you'd have a case with a better analogy, but you don't.



 

 

Kasz216 on 02 August 2009
MontanaHatchet said:
Whatever he believed, he broke the law. He didn't care for his daughter whom he had legal responsibility for. We're not arguing morality or intent. This is a legal case, so we're arguing what the law is. Faith based healing isn't against the law, but it certainly doesn't work. And what is against the law is not taking someone for care when you have legal responsibility over them. Letting her die an easily preventable death is certainly against the law.

Maybe you'd have a case with a better analogy, but you don't.

Faith based healing isn't illegal... but using it is illegal if someone dies?

Wouldn't that make it.... illegal?

 

Why aren't people who refuse vacinations arrested and thorwn in jail for 25 years when their kids die?



MontanaHatchet on 02 August 2009

Ehh, stop picking up certain points and just address the main message. That is, unless you have nothing.

Let me give you another example. Acupuncture is perfectly legal, but if you kill someone, it's illegal. However, that doesn't make the practice illegal.



 

 

Khuutra on 02 August 2009
MontanaHatchet said:
Ehh, stop picking up certain points and just address the main message. That is, unless you have nothing.

Let me give you another example. Acupuncture is perfectly legal, but if you kill someone, it's illegal. However, that doesn't make the practice illegal.

This is a bad analogy. Nobody goes to an acupuncturist for diabetes.



Kasz216 on 02 August 2009
MontanaHatchet said:
Ehh, stop picking up certain points and just address the main message. That is, unless you have nothing.

Let me give you another example. Acupuncture is perfectly legal, but if you kill someone, it's illegal. However, that doesn't make the practice illegal.

There is no main message.  Your main message is largely without point.

The man did what he thought was best to save his child's life... and was wrong.

That's actually NOT illegal... nor should it be.  A childs health should be in their parents hands... and it should be up to them whther they are correct or not.  The only thing that should be illegal is if someone kills their child even though they know otherwise.

You can tell because that was his actual defense.  It's why people who don't vaccinate their children aren't arrested when they die.  They are doing what they believe is best for their child.

Well not yet anyway.

The new universal healthcare plan mandates vaccination.