"If most developers hadn't touched the TEV as you say GC games wouldn't have come anywhere near Xbox quality, which a lot of them certainly did."

Viper meant those that made the other games, not the lot that did.

Capcom used the TEVs, so did Factor 5. Many didn't and just used the PS2 builds.

A better comparison is a Mac in the older days, different programming style resulting in the same purpose applications with one having more advantages over the other in certain areas and vice versa. Ultimately, it's the fault of the publishers or the executive decisions to not put the budget and time into making Wii games, while it was understandable on the GCN since it was in last place, it's certainly not the case for the Wii considering how many units it has sold thus far, and we didn't see anybody take advantage of the Wii until 2009, which is ridiuclous and shitty considering that it's a lot more powerful and efficient vs the Xbox.

The Wii is definitely more powerful than the original Xbox, but it's not a big jump. It still uses a single core CPU clocked below 1GHz. You can't base everything on numbers but if you understand the architecture of the chip in question you get a good idea of the performance you can get out of it.

The GC and Wii CPUs are basically PowerPC 750 chips (G3) with added instruction sets and improved FPU. The Xbox used a hybrid Pentium III/Celeron but it was more of a PIII with Celeron's L2. Once you understand this it's easy to figure out performance, or at least make comparisons.

You can get a lot by looking at the numbers, and while Wii beats Xbox in just about everything it would still benefit from having a beefier GPU. I still say the original Xbox can do some things better than the Wii, basically anything that has to do with shaders.

Heck, as long as we get games that look as good as SMG2, who cares.

and now for the million dollar question...

who gives a shit?

shader model 2.0 is quiet limited, it wasn't until 3 that it started to really shine =P I assure you that Wii games can look better than Xbox games even when it comes to shader like effects, they are just done differently.

Shader 2.0 isn't as limited as what the Wii offers (no hardware support), show me 1 game that does it better than the best Xbox had to offer. They aren't done differently they are different effects altogether, I assume that's why you said shader-like.

now you are just looping in circles back to something I already covered a few posts back, I'm not even sure if you understand anything outside of the PC area at this point. when you code around the TEV, you can easily achieve the same look and do more on Wii at this point because devs are finally starting to understand it better. the new RE and Dead Space on Wii already look better than anything the Xbox had, and there are more games coming up that far surpass the Xbox, it's not like I don't have a Xbox to boot up to compare with lol, I'm not exactly living in the past impressions here.

The Wii's TEV isn't any more capable or programmable than what the GC had, the GPU is just clocked about 50% higher and has more memory to work with. The whole point of the TEV is to emulate effects that are possible on more expensive setups.

What you aren't getting is that these effects can be done on Xbox without the same kind of strain that it puts on either the GC or Wii. GC and Wii can do these effects at a greater cost to resources, not so with Xbox. Xbox used tons of middleware and was programmed like a PC, it was never exploited or taken advantage of and was itself more programmable than either Wii or GC it just wasn't needed.

The two games you just named are both on-rail shooters, which just proves my point. To have a nice looking Wii game, you need a controlled environment where physics, AI and everything else that takes away from graphics won't be a factor. You are basically playing a giant cut-scene where everything is controlled. If the same devs were working on the original Xbox with nearly 10 years of programming to the metal, I can assure you that shader effects would look better on Xbox, and not just in controlled environments.

Actually, the Wii TEV has more pipelines as well as effects that the GC didn't have.

Also, while those two games may be on rails, how does that affect physics and A. I. like you said?   All the on rails thing does is focus the field of vision to specific polygon surfaces.  Not to mention that DS: Extraction has segments of full camera control.

But if you want a game that isn't camera locked try Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Metroid: Other M, Gladiator A.D., The Grinder, Galaxy 2 (naturally), Spyborgs, Monster Hunter 3, Brawl, and more.