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Forums - Nintendo - What's Wrong with The Legend of Zelda? Part1 - Overworld

trashleg said:
i was genuinely asking who said it was a blog.

and maybe i misinterpreted, or maybe not.

but even if it DID come from a blog its here now to be discussed? :)

Of course. I just don't think the medium of writing for a blog translates well to a forum opener...then again the only hitch with this thread has been my complaining.  It's probably just the fact that I have some...rage issues with quite a few bloggers and my emotions got the better of me.



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I tend to agree with the analysis. However the over world being stagnant is merely a symptom not the disease. The disease is the series has become far too linear. It strangles the player with its sad lack of freedom. However the point of a Zelda game is to be linear. The concepts simply will not be able to work in a sandbox architecture. Zelda is an old school adventure game. We must remember it is not a role playing game.

I think I am being confusing so I will explain through an example. Let us boil down Zelda into a sort of synopsis. Your character has to travel to a dozen dungeons in chronological order. In fact even if you could go to a later dungeon. You probably could not get in, and even if you could you could not do anything. Anyway here is the point you enter the dungeon fighting creatures as you go, and first on the agenda is find the treasure which is a weapon or a tool. You may even need to find a master key. Then you use these items to get to the boss, and use your new item to kill said boss. Once you do that you get a reward, and you use your new item to access the next dungeon. Where you repeat it all over again.

This is Zelda in a nutshell it is entirely linear in design, and thus must be in presentation. A valid over world means that you could actually grow outside of dungeons, but what good would it do you, because its still going to be designed as if you hadn't done anything in the over world at all. In fact the design doesn't even allow for true leveling. Accomplishment in the game is dictated by getting items that solve puzzles to progress.

The original poster is correct in the fact that the game needs a drastic overhaul. I mean burn the bitch to the ground and start from square one. Nintendo needs to take this to the sandbox. I am not sure it would be well received though. Tossing out the linear dungeons, item based puzzles, and actually incorporating a real leveling system in their game. However in a world of Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Oblivion, Grand Theft Auto, and the list really is endless. Zelda is just terribly tired, and if this series is not entirely reinvented its going to get left in the dust.

What Nintendo needs to do is draw a lot of inspiration from Oblivion I think. The game has a lot of long side quests, and perhaps having six or seven of those chain quests in the next Zelda just as a byproduct might set them on the right path for balancing the old with the new. Once you have to start thinking how advances in one line must tie in with another you have to start to loosen up. Have items that are helpful not necessary, or having puzzles that can be solved in many ways.

I mean think of a room where you need a hammer to pound down a block, but you do not have a hammer, but you might have a keg of gunpowder. So instead of pounding you just blow the door off of its hinges. You can even start planting novel items in the world. Like spells that cause you to float so you can slash a target rather then use a arrow. Anyway multiple quests could force the game to loosen up enough that freedom would be a real byproduct, and more importantly it would have some worth.



I dont think we need more enemys in the overworld. If anything a bit more interactive elements and sidequests (something i loved about MM). The cities seemed pretty lively to me. Castle town is a huge and bustling city, whilst kakariko had its own charm and zora's domain is simply one of the greatest locations to ever be put into a game. Death mountain was the only place which, as a cityesque area, dissapointed me (due to the pure awesome that was goron city in ocarina). Hyrule field was also full of some incredibly beautiful and epic scenary as well as secret doungeons, sidequests, and minigames which certainly kept me entertained. The only location that really felt empty was the desert. The gerudo's were greatly missed in TP.

This being said, I strongly believe that the zelda franchise needs a kick in the ass, and a serious make over. No longer can these games dwell in OoT's shadow. Miyamoto, as much as I respect the man, has to grow a pair, like he did with WW



                                                                           

Actually I take back everything I said about blogs inherrently beging inferior to forums in terms of discussion. You can still get one-sided statments from people preaching their ideas rather than contemplating them with others...↑



ZZetaAlec said:
trashleg said:
i was genuinely asking who said it was a blog.

and maybe i misinterpreted, or maybe not.

but even if it DID come from a blog its here now to be discussed? :)

Of course. I just don't think the medium of writing for a blog translates well to a forum opener...then again the only hitch with this thread has been my complaining.  It's probably just the fact that I have some...rage issues with quite a few bloggers and my emotions got the better of me.

lol well kudos to you for being man enough to admit that eh?

i don't read blogs. i find that i don't have time to take full advantage of the whole internetz, cos i spend most of my time on here lol

 

el patras, i don't really like zora's domain. but i think that's more to do with my hatred and fear of water-related levels in ANY game, not just zeldas. i did appreciate how beautiful it was though. but i completely agree with everything else you say :)



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.
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ZZetaAlec said:

Actually I take back everything I said about blogs inherrently beging inferior to forums in terms of discussion. You can still get one-sided statments from people preaching their ideas rather than contemplating them with others...↑


i hope your enjoying the internet, please tell me how i can make your stay any more pleasant



                                                                           

Dodece said:


I think I am being confusing so I will explain through an example. Let us boil down Zelda into a sort of synopsis. Your character has to travel to a dozen dungeons in chronological order. In fact even if you could go to a later dungeon. You probably could not get in, and even if you could you could not do anything. Anyway here is the point you enter the dungeon fighting creatures as you go, and first on the agenda is find the treasure which is a weapon or a tool. You may even need to find a master key. Then you use these items to get to the boss, and use your new item to kill said boss. Once you do that you get a reward, and you use your new item to access the next dungeon. Where you repeat it all over again.

This is Zelda in a nutshell it is entirely linear in design, and thus must be in presentation. A valid over world means that you could actually grow outside of dungeons, but what good would it do you, because its still going to be designed as if you hadn't done anything in the over world at all. In fact the design doesn't even allow for true leveling. Accomplishment in the game is dictated by getting items that solve puzzles to progress.

You can be linear and explorative without going full-on sandbox, though. The solution in this case is one of Metroidvania. A contiguous world you can navigate, but not fully navigate without certain items. Thus the game herds you in the right direction while still retaining at least the illusion of an open world. A contiguous design would encourage a total sense of exploration, as well. Imagine dungeons having multiple entrances, and then the whole world is all intermingled.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.