By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - FIFA to no longer allow players to celebrate with religious shirts

Kasz216 on 12 July 2009
highwaystar101 said:
Slimebeast said:

Yes, it's the fault of the so called liberals.

Take away your freedom in the name of other people's freedom.

A similar example (base on exact same mechanism and reasoning):

Here in Sweden in many schools the Swedish flag and our national anthem (yeah it's a tradition here to sing it as school ends for summer) is forbidden because it can offend immigrants (actually no immigrants complained, but the Swedes themselves in a pre-emptive measure thought it could offend and hurt the foreign born lol).

(and you can guess with your little finger that Sweden is anti-Christianity nowadays as these kind of phenomens usually go hand in hand)

Please don't group us all together... and on another post, please don't group us with commies either.

I oppose a lot of liberal views as well as support some. If a flag or national anthem was banned I would be outraged. I'm all for free expression and so are a lot of liberals.

But you aren't.

You are against free expression... you are against these players from being aloud to express themselves.

If you truley were for freedom of expression you would be upset.

You're just "freedom of expression for what i like."

It's exactly the same as banning a flag of national anthem.



Around the Network
Slimebeast on 12 July 2009
highwaystar101 said:
Slimebeast said:

Yes, it's the fault of the so called liberals.

Take away your freedom in the name of other people's freedom.

A similar example (base on exact same mechanism and reasoning):

Here in Sweden in many schools the Swedish flag and our national anthem (yeah it's a tradition here to sing it as school ends for summer) is forbidden because it can offend immigrants (actually no immigrants complained, but the Swedes themselves in a pre-emptive measure thought it could offend and hurt the foreign born lol).

(and you can guess with your little finger that Sweden is anti-Christianity nowadays as these kind of phenomens usually go hand in hand)

Please don't group us all together... and on another post, please don't group us with commies either.

I oppose a lot of liberal views as well as support some. If a flag or national anthem was banned I would be outraged. I'm all for free expression and so are a lot of liberals.

I believe I have to use the name liberal because that's the phrase used. Like Christians there are many types of liberals, but what can we do as they all claim to be liberal?

What else should i use? Perhaps left-wingers (but that phrase would exclude a lot of so called 'right wing' parties which have a similar agenda ('The people's party, the liberals' the party is called here in Sweden, and your equivalent in the UK I guess is "The Liberal Democrats").

 



highwaystar101 on 12 July 2009
Kasz216 said:
highwaystar101 said:

@ Kasz...

Don't call my argument self-centered and selfish! You totally missed my whole argument.

I'm not saying no-one is allowed to follow religion. I'm saying everyone should have the right to follow the religion of their choice on the field. It's not stopping freedom in anyway! FIFA just don't want religion to interfere with the game and become an issue that skews it.

No rights are being taken away, FIFA is a group not a government. All groups have rule to protect the interests and FIFA just don't want anything to do with religion and I acknowledge and respect that because I like all fans go to a football match TO WATCH FOOTBALL, nothing else.

So people rights to follow religion still exist, none have been taken away. They just don't want an issue made out of religion because it will cause them problems.

FIFA have nipped it in the bud before a problem of a Muslim team plays a Christian team arises and all hell breaks lose.

Look at what you said about Thor. That's a VERY self centered and selfish argument.

As is everything in this post.

You are taking away peoples right to express their religion.

I'm saying that people are allowed their preferences in and outside of football, just don't let it be an issue. I'm not denying anyone rights, just that football is about football. and if FIFA feel the need to have a policy on religion then they should be allowed like any other group.

Let's transplant it to another situation. A team of strong catholics who say 'Catholosism is great' on an away match to a place where protestant is the main form of Christianity. It would be an issue they could do without because it would cause trouble.

Most groups have rules to avoid trouble they don't need Kasz, and FIFA are one of them



Kasz216 on 12 July 2009
highwaystar101 said:
Kasz216 said:
highwaystar101 said:

@ Kasz...

Don't call my argument self-centered and selfish! You totally missed my whole argument.

I'm not saying no-one is allowed to follow religion. I'm saying everyone should have the right to follow the religion of their choice on the field. It's not stopping freedom in anyway! FIFA just don't want religion to interfere with the game and become an issue that skews it.

No rights are being taken away, FIFA is a group not a government. All groups have rule to protect the interests and FIFA just don't want anything to do with religion and I acknowledge and respect that because I like all fans go to a football match TO WATCH FOOTBALL, nothing else.

So people rights to follow religion still exist, none have been taken away. They just don't want an issue made out of religion because it will cause them problems.

FIFA have nipped it in the bud before a problem of a Muslim team plays a Christian team arises and all hell breaks lose.

Look at what you said about Thor. That's a VERY self centered and selfish argument.

As is everything in this post.

You are taking away peoples right to express their religion.

I'm saying that people are allowed their preferences in and outside of football, just don't let it be an issue. I'm not denying anyone rights, just that football is about football. and if FIFA feel the need to have a policy on religion then they should be allowed like any other group.

Let's transplant it to another situation. A team of strong catholics who say 'Catholosism is great' on an away match to a place where protestant is the main form of Christianity. It would be an issue they could do without because it would cause trouble.

Most groups have rules to avoid trouble they don't need Kasz, and FIFA are one of them

You said yourself you would be agaisnt banning of flag waving and other such things.

So why not that but religion?

If the UK played a match in Iran... the fact that the oposing team is from the UK is going to cause a lot of trouble and is a headache FIFA could do without.  What being the "eviliest" wester power and all.

Perhaps teams should be denied their national identities and instead go by random names?

It is a headache they can do without.



highwaystar101 on 12 July 2009
Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:
Slimebeast said:

Yes, it's the fault of the so called liberals.

Take away your freedom in the name of other people's freedom.

A similar example (base on exact same mechanism and reasoning):

Here in Sweden in many schools the Swedish flag and our national anthem (yeah it's a tradition here to sing it as school ends for summer) is forbidden because it can offend immigrants (actually no immigrants complained, but the Swedes themselves in a pre-emptive measure thought it could offend and hurt the foreign born lol).

(and you can guess with your little finger that Sweden is anti-Christianity nowadays as these kind of phenomens usually go hand in hand)

Please don't group us all together... and on another post, please don't group us with commies either.

I oppose a lot of liberal views as well as support some. If a flag or national anthem was banned I would be outraged. I'm all for free expression and so are a lot of liberals.

I believe I have to use the name liberal because that's the phrase used. Like Christians there are many types of liberals, but what can we do as they all claim to be liberal?

What else should i use? Perhaps left-wingers (but that phrase would exclude a lot of so called 'right wing' parties which have a similar agenda ('The people's party, the liberals' the party is called here in Sweden, and your equivalent in the UK I guess is "The Liberal Democrats").

 

Lol, no I'm afraid you misunderstood. It was the view of liberalism you gave, it was very broad bearing the extreme.

I don't share views with the extremists who 'burn the flag' so to speak, they don't talk for me.



Around the Network
marciosmg on 12 July 2009

Thanks Kasz for making all my points for me.

highwaystar, to us what you are basically saying is: Religion being expressed on football will attract trouble, therefore we should not allow religious expression on games.

We say: A lot of things can cause trouble, but why not allow religion, but allow others?



www.jamesvandermemes.com

highwaystar101 on 12 July 2009
Kasz216 said:
highwaystar101 said:
 

I'm saying that people are allowed their preferences in and outside of football, just don't let it be an issue. I'm not denying anyone rights, just that football is about football. and if FIFA feel the need to have a policy on religion then they should be allowed like any other group.

Let's transplant it to another situation. A team of strong catholics who say 'Catholosism is great' on an away match to a place where protestant is the main form of Christianity. It would be an issue they could do without because it would cause trouble.

Most groups have rules to avoid trouble they don't need Kasz, and FIFA are one of them

You said yourself you would be agaisnt banning of flag waving and other such things.

So why not that but religion?

If the UK played a match in Iran... the fact that the oposing team is from the UK is going to cause a lot of trouble and is a headache FIFA could do without. What being the "eviliest" wester power and all.

Perhaps teams should be denied their national identities and instead go by random names?

It is a headache they can do without.

So wait??? I said I want to BAN religion? When did I say this?

As I recall I support peoples faith in and outside of football, I just don't want an issue to be made out of it like with the example I gave.

Also, trouble will occur that's inneviatable. FIFA just want teams to be neutral so the amount of trouble can be curbed. It's common sense, they have policies on lots of potential problems to curb trouble.



Slimebeast on 12 July 2009
highwaystar101 said:
Slimebeast said:
highwaystar101 said:
Slimebeast said:

Yes, it's the fault of the so called liberals.

Take away your freedom in the name of other people's freedom.

A similar example (base on exact same mechanism and reasoning):

Here in Sweden in many schools the Swedish flag and our national anthem (yeah it's a tradition here to sing it as school ends for summer) is forbidden because it can offend immigrants (actually no immigrants complained, but the Swedes themselves in a pre-emptive measure thought it could offend and hurt the foreign born lol).

(and you can guess with your little finger that Sweden is anti-Christianity nowadays as these kind of phenomens usually go hand in hand)

Please don't group us all together... and on another post, please don't group us with commies either.

I oppose a lot of liberal views as well as support some. If a flag or national anthem was banned I would be outraged. I'm all for free expression and so are a lot of liberals.

I believe I have to use the name liberal because that's the phrase used. Like Christians there are many types of liberals, but what can we do as they all claim to be liberal?

What else should i use? Perhaps left-wingers (but that phrase would exclude a lot of so called 'right wing' parties which have a similar agenda ('The people's party, the liberals' the party is called here in Sweden, and your equivalent in the UK I guess is "The Liberal Democrats").

 

Lol, no I'm afraid you misunderstood. It was the view of liberalism you gave, it was very broad bearing the extreme.

I don't share views with the extremists who 'burn the flag' so to speak, they don't talk for me.


Oh. Ok, great. But unfortunately you're all pushing the lot of things in the society in the wrong direction.

Besides, I think youre missing the point slightly on this topic or skewing it in the wrong direction - because I dont think FIFA is afraid of riots, I dont think that's their reason for denying religious expression like innocent T-shirts. I am afraid it's something deeper and more modern than that (see my Swedish example). Much like you uself hinted at earlier, that  you're against religous people/Christians expressing their faith for more sublime reasons than fear of riots and physical violence. Because you're in fact pushing the 'mental rape' argument.



highwaystar101 on 12 July 2009
marciosmg said:
Thanks Kasz for making all my points for me.

highwaystar, to us what you are basically saying is: Religion being expressed on football will attract trouble, therefore we should not allow religious expression on games.

We say: A lot of things can cause trouble, but why not allow religion, but allow others?

Agreed, but my counter point would be that other things AREN'T allowed. Political message aren't allowed for the same reaso as with many things. And you only have to go to any local derby to see the precautions against rioting they take.



marciosmg on 12 July 2009

But I think it's different.

For someone to use a shirt with a picture of a politician is different than someone using a shirt that says "I love Jesus".

One is trying to do marketing for the politician. The other is expressig something private and personal, which is his faith.

PS - And honestly, there is nothing wrong if someone wants to use a shirt with a politician's face. They should allow it too.



www.jamesvandermemes.com