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Forums - Microsoft - Forza 3: No weather, night racing, or rally

BMaker11 said:
selnor said:
AE86 said:
selnor said:

WTF are you on about? Do you know anything about cars? Do you know what Ive done? When I was 16 years old, for 12 months I toured with GP2, and helped work on the cars with my uncle who was in F1 the next year. You picked the wrong person to argue with about, tyre pressure, engines etc etc. I know what makes a REALISTIC racing game.

Tire pressure...hahahahah....sixteen years and you learned about tire pressure?

How about camber? caster? toe? steering axis inclination? bump damping? rebound? anti-roll? Scrub rate? Suspension track? Viscous vs clutch pack LSD? Open diff vs locked diff? LSD preload? 1.5 way vs 2 way LSD? Parallel steer? Dog tracking? Port and polishing? Valve timing? Valve overlap? Aluminium vs Cast Iron blocks? Cam timing? Cam lift/duration? Bore/stroke? Firing order? Gear ratios? Final drive ratios? Downforce? Compression ratio? Octane ratings? Radial/bias ply? Slicks vs drag radials vs street tires? Stage 1 vs Stage 2 clutch? Lightening flywheels? Torque converter stall? Ignition cut launch control? Fuel cut? Helical cut vs straight cut gears? Sequential vs 5 speed vs Dual clutch vs Automatic transmissions? Drive by wire vs carbureted vs throttle body? Hell, do you even know the difference in oil weights?

I could go on for days, but I'm sure you'll find a way to come up with a response chock full of wikipedia quotes.

From what I've seen you know next to nothing about cars, if you'd like to argue I'd be more than happy, but I can assure you my life in the autmotive engineering industry and being an pro-am track day driver/drifter has afforded me a lot more knowledge than your "tour with GP2".

LOL. You talk about wikipedia and yet thats probably where you got that info. LOL.

I have never talked about racing ( real life racing and specs ) with anyone on this site. So your pulling accusations out of your backside. I have only ever talked about the Racing in VIDEO GAMES on this site. And now you bring to attention all the stuff you dont understand, it's a perfect oppurtunity to say to you that is exactly why Forza is leagues ahead of GT. Forza has so much more tuning options than GT it isn't funny. Yes I only have GT5P as a guage. But Forza 2 wiped the floor with GT5P in terms of tuning. After playing Forza 2 then playing GT5P not being able to to set variable camber on GT5P for instance is painful. Yes you can change camber, but it's so basic compared to Forza 2's dynamic variable system it hurts.

The fact that you think GT has been at the forefront in Realism proves to me that you know very little about racing, and what actually affects the car as it hurtles through a corner at 100 mph.

The majority of things you talk about there are mechanical and only influeantual in certain racing competitions. Almost all racing competitions have a certain spec list to operate to. Meaning you have to opt for a certain LSD or you will be disqualified. Competitions have rules. Many things affect the handling of a car. The reason why I mention Tyre deformation so much is that the tyre on any car in any competition does 60% of the work for handling. That is the only part of a car the touches the road. It converts the power, the braking, the entry and exit speeds. Also the brake temperature affects the tyre temperature. A track may be 30% and be optimal for one type of tyre. For instance softer compound will heat up faster and have much better grip quicker. But fall away much faster as they grain. Forza 3 has all of this implemented. Again this then affects understeer and oversteer. But another driver may be on a harder compound. Which will take longer to heat, but provide better grip for longer. Even then it depends on a cars aero design. Certain cars can make softer compounds last longer because they treat cars tyres better in the corners.

Tyres and their condition can make as much as 4 secs a lap in race conditions. If GT5 does not have this very intricate system ( which takes alot of resources to calculate ) then it's fail fail fail in terms of realism.

Your entire post after that is just crap because of that sentence. The arguments about Forza and GT are always about which one is more "definitive" and sports more "realism". In order to have "realism", what do you need to know? REAL LIFE RACING AND SPECS! I mean, you are the one talking about tire pressure, tire deformation, drifting, etc. Now all those things that you need to know how they work in real life in order to recreate it in a game.....is just AE86 pulling nonsense out of his ass (excuse me *ahem* backside)? Slap yourself

And don't try and knock GT because it never had damage at 100MPH. If a car crashes into a corner at that speed, it'll be totalled, not just have a little dent in the side *maybe* a fender hanging off the front. But since you're the expert, I guess that's "realism"

Wake TFU!

I never mentioned damge. / dmagae converstaion.

And I have only talked about Tryes of Forza 3 because the the only new info we have been given about new engines. Why would I mention camber when I havent seen the Forza 3 model for it? Wake up man. Like I said I have only talked about the racing in the GAMES. And all I can talk about is this excellent new feature. Because we know nothing of the other features till Ive used it or been shown it by Turn 10.

Understand now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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Carl2291 said:
selnor said:
Carl2291 said:
Not having night time racing in Le Mans 24 hour is fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.


I'm referring to how a car behaves. Car behaviour >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks of the game. Because if night racing is implemented. You then have the track cooling down. Maybe from 30 to 18. This agian makes the handling of a car change completely. Braking zones change, accelerating changes as does race lines. It's not like you can just implement something like night racing unless you can replicate the changes realistically. Night Racing isn't just about it going dark. It changes your driving completely.

That doesn't change the fact that having no night time racing in a Le Mans 24 hour race = fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.


So if GT5 has no trye deformation that must mean MAJOR FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL. So from your point one game fails and the other fails miserably.



selnor said:
Carl2291 said:
selnor said:
Carl2291 said:
Not having night time racing in Le Mans 24 hour is fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.


I'm referring to how a car behaves. Car behaviour >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks of the game. Because if night racing is implemented. You then have the track cooling down. Maybe from 30 to 18. This agian makes the handling of a car change completely. Braking zones change, accelerating changes as does race lines. It's not like you can just implement something like night racing unless you can replicate the changes realistically. Night Racing isn't just about it going dark. It changes your driving completely.

That doesn't change the fact that having no night time racing in a Le Mans 24 hour race = fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.


So if GT5 has no trye deformation that must mean MAJOR FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL. So from your point one game fails and the other fails miserably.

If it turns your frown upside down... yes.

Gran Turismo 5 could fail, but Forza 3 is already failing miserably.



                            

selnor said:
masterb8tr said:
every 360 exclusive game is the best game ever according to selnor.


And ebery 360 game is crap according to PS3 fans.


nah its just you



GT5 is superior than FM3 in every way exept graphics. They are equal there



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BladeOfGod said:
GT5 is superior than FM3 in every way exept graphics. They are equal there

We aint seen GT5 gameplay yet, but if it looks as good as the trailer... i disagree.

And unless you can show me a link what specifies all the features GT5 has, i wont belive you.



                            

Wow! this thread is still going on and on.



selnor said:
Carl2291 said:
Not having night time racing in Le Mans 24 hour is fail fail fail fail in terms of realism.


I'm referring to how a car behaves. Car behaviour >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks of the game. Because if night racing is implemented. You then have the track cooling down. Maybe from 30 to 18. This agian makes the handling of a car change completely. Braking zones change, accelerating changes as does race lines. It's not like you can just implement something like night racing unless you can replicate the changes realistically. Night Racing isn't just about it going dark. It changes your driving completely.


Don't bother trying to educate them mate, they honestly do not understand what a racing simulator should be.  Having spent so long building a accurate tyre model for FM3, I don't blame T10 for not wanting to ruin all the hard work by adding "basic" wet weather physics like every other racer has.  No console racer will accurately model water physics well enough to make a accurate driving simulator in wet weather conditions.  If you want to model wet weather you have to factor in a entire physics model of its own, or go the PGR way and just reduce the friction coefficient and pretend the car has less grip due to rain.  This isn't simulation then.

Not having night time racing in a 24 hour event is silly though Selnor so it's a fair point but hardly game breaking. 

Fancy a bet Carl, I'll bet you $1000 that Forza Motorsport 3 scores better on Metacritic 4 weeks after the release of GT5 in all regions.  I'm that confident FM3 will not be the massive failure that your supposed impartial opinion seems to think.  Seems a fairly safe bet to me for you to win given you and others comments in here.



Carl2291 said:
BladeOfGod said:
GT5 is superior than FM3 in every way exept graphics. They are equal there

We aint seen GT5 gameplay yet, but if it looks as good as the trailer... i disagree.

And unless you can show me a link what specifies all the features GT5 has, i wont belive you.


1080p vs. 720p

World Rally vs. No Rally at all

16 cars on track vs. 8 cars on track

Nascar vs. No Nascar

Weather system vs. no weather system

Night racing vs. no night racing

...



I already have a bet with Forza 3 and Gran Turismo 5.

Im sure some other people will be happy to take you up on the bet though.