That's why Natal will be used exclusively only for games like the Wii motion is used exclusively. As I said a few times already, the other games like the ones you mentioned, even on the wii, rely mostly on buttons and analog movement with very little actual motion controls.

So a 360 controller for those games and Natal for the other games is perfect. And perhaps some integration like with the SixAxis.

And since Natal is about a good 8-12 months away, why don't we wait and see some more developed games to see if this can be used in other ways besides just the Wii stationary type games.

So why are we claiming the Natal won't work without a controller?

Have any of us played it?

Do we even have a clue what's going to happen to it between now and release?

Threads like this popped up with the Wiimote and look what happened. "oh they'll still need a traditional controller, its nothing more than two slapped together gamecubes with a gimmick"

We fall into the same damn traps as consumer theorists. Do the smart thing and look at it with an open mind.

Pretty much.

It's not like the Wii sells because it has accurate controls or precision or the games have hardcore gameplay. It's because they get you up off your ass.

Wii Fit sells because the board is a gimmick, Mario Kart sells because it's arcadey and comes bundled with a wheel, Wii Play is bundled with extra controllers and Wii Sports comes free with the system.

Look at how SMG and SSB:B sold, the games where accuracy and control mattered... about as well as the Halos and Gears of Wars and CoDS.

Natal might bring some interesting ideas for hardcore games like Milo, but fundementally its purpose is the same as the Wiimote. A gimmick to sell casuals on the system, but would ultimately be detrimental to hardcore games.

Natal is really all you need. I'd rather use my body than a Wiimote that screws up your aim and view every time you move it slightly out of range. Not to hate on Nintendo or anything, but that's just how I see it. If Microsoft does make a controller like the WiiMote, I'd like to see them make it have better aim.

In my opinion, the regular controllers will never be replaced. Normal people like me just want to sit back and relax after a hard day, and not move with motion controllers. I know, i know, some people preffer motion controllers, but they will never be the majority of gamers.

IMO.

Does Natal need a controller? No, presuming it gets games tailored to it. Can it complement existing gamepad - sure, leaning in FPS, etc. all sounds fun as mooted by MS.

Would the experience be better with something like a Wiimote? Well, obviously the jury's out until it launches, but I suspect the answer is yes, if only for certain games.

My reasoning:

1) stand in your room and jump around and swing your arms as if hitting something using visual cues on a screen before you (that's Natal to be fair. It is. You see a ball come towards you, judge angle, etc. then swing you arms. Please note I'm specifically thinking of games where you'd hold something)

2) now repeat but hold any old thing that comes to hand as a prop. Did that feel better? It did for me. Holding something while swinging at an imaginary ball, etc. feels better than holding nothing. (that's Natal while holding a rolled up newspaper or a simple plastic 'prop' item)

3) now repeat with a Wiimote - feel the rumble and feedback? Felt even better didn't it? (that's Natal if it also had a dedicated controller with rumble feedback. Note that in theory gamepad could suffice but of course would face design/shape issues as the sixaxxis did/does)


Now I hope to see more than ball/bat titles on Natal (and Wii for that matter) but the fact is that for any game where you're supposed to be holding something actually holding something feels better. And holding something that can deliver feedback with vibration, etc. is even better.

So while I really hope for exciting new stuff on Natal, if it wants to deliver something like Wii Sports in a superior fashion then I honestly believe it needs a peripheral with vibration to hold in your hand.

For full body tracking and stuff that doesn't rely on holding something I think Natal looks awesome. But if there's supposed to be something in your hand then I think it's weakened because we expect to hold things in our hands, and holding something feels better than not.

I think we'll see a motion based standard next gen, like you said. Even if Natal and PS3's eye toy 'supreme' don't take off. Plans are already in motion to make motion control built in next time out for all systems. Maybe 360 will have a few SKU's AGAIN! One with Natal and a controller, one without. Seems MS salivates over the idea of numerous SKU's.

I just wonder if Wii '2' will join the HD world next time out. If the prices are low (And I would assume they would be) and Nintendo can match, or better the current $250 price tag, then they should go for it. But if going HD means jacking the price up, that would cut off a great portion of their audience. And they wouldn't do that. So, I wonder.

The other two will copy Wii from the get go next gen. Not so sure Wii '2' will copy the other two in HD.

Neither Sony nor Microsoft will rely on Natal/Dildo for next generation control. Microsoft has positioned Natal as it's next big thing and it will most likely be positioned to attract the casual market, although I think MS core market is more excited about this thing.

I think Sony is just trying to expand its eyetoy market. Both MS and Sony will have standard controllers as their primary device next generation, because that's what works best across all game genres (except RTS, those will be played with a dildo).

That is the same as saying: "Go ahed Nintendo, kick our asses a little more"

Next gen they will be entirely all motion control and something beyond maybe.

I disagree, NATAL turns you into the controller, add on Wiimote knockoffs would destroy the very fiber of their marketing campaign.