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ManusJustus said:
ironman said:
See this is just another example of somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about when it comes to the Bible.  Most of that took place in the old testament and was nullified by the coming of Jesus.

That doesnt change the logic of God.  Your still worshipping the same God who had all those crazy ideas, regardless if he still wants you to follow them or not.

Would you vote for a politician who who use to be a member of the Nationalist Socialist Party, thought that all non-whites should be thrown out of the country, and wanted to take away women's right to vote?  Hopefully, the answer is no.  But using your logic you would if he changed his mind, because all that past stuff doesnt matter anymore.

Once again, my OP still stands. You have to realize things havn't changed. Before Jesus, man had no "go between". After the crucifixtion, Man had a go between, the ultimate sacrifice.  



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@ Everyone saying certain ones don't apply to Christians -

I think at no point in the article does it say all of these are exclusive to Christianity, it just says bible all the way through, that's all Abrahamic religions then.



ironman said:

The part highlined in orange is is where you started the argument. That statement was meant to tear down the credability of christians by making them look stupid. I'm sorry but that doesn't fly.

Not stupid (not all of them, at least).  But I stand by what I've said:  most Christians I've known over the years quickly dismiss the OT.  I think because they know that it makes God look bad.  Many Christians I've known haven't even bothered to read the thing... which is understandable, frankly.  I assume you *have* read it, so you know how tedious most of it is (with a few notable exceptions).

But yeah, I think that many Christians are ignorant of much of the Old Testament, and even those who are familiar with it seem very fast to downplay it when it's referenced in any kind of argument (just like has happened in this thread).  If Christians are right, then the Old Testament was inspired by God--it is the Word.

Seems to me like it's worth discussing, even when inconvenient.

Now, lets go back to your point on #11. Lets remeber first of all that this is the old testament, this was before Jesus. People in the old testament had to give sacrifices in order to "cleanse" their souls on a regular basis because all men (meaning mankind) are sinners. The sacrifice was a symbol of your repentance. When Jesus was crucified, he became the human sacrifice. Thus eliminateing the need for animal sacrifices.

Obviously this has nothing to do with sacrifices, but yes, I do understand that the Old Testament is before Jesus, and I understand what Jesus is supposed to represent.

You need to realize that things were a lot more strict before Jesus came. A wife touching another man's genitles would have been considered adultry to the Jewish people in that time period. Rather than be "killed" by God, they would want to cut off their hand. You must realize that most of the old testament laws were talored to the time period and the Jewish people.      

Here's the passage quoted in the OP:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12.

"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."

If this was actually considered adultery, then it wouldn't have been necessary to specify the situation like this; adultery is already covered by other laws.  This is demonstrably and obviously different from sleeping with another man--the Jews were not stupid.

Or, if you believe they were, wouldn't God's role here be to enlighten them?  To give them laws that reflect good, proper behavior... instead of conforming to their flawed, irrational understandings?

If your wife defends you--even by grabbing the balls of your attacker--you do not "thank" her by cutting off her hand.  You do not punish her; she has done nothing that merits punishment.  Instead, she has acted as a good wife, and ought to be praised for it.

If you confuse this with adultery, you are misguided.  If you cut off a woman's hand for this reason, you are barbaric.  If you are a God who forces your people to act thus, you are psychotic. 



highwaystar101 said:
@ Everyone saying certain ones don't apply to Christians -

I think at no point in the article does it say all of these are exclusive to Christianity, it just says bible all the way through, that's all Abrahamic religions then.

That's true. They'll apply to Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. Although, this is more geared to old school Jews.



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That list is funny. I actually enjoyed reading that. I tell you, I'm probably going to hell, but I intend to take the throne.

OT- Its funny, but as the saying goes, never mix religion with politics. I think we can include video gaming websites and many other different internet sites with that too. Too easy to abuse and disrespect.

Whatever the beliefs of any individual, whatever the denomination one belongs to, you cannot put a blanket statement and say that applies to everything spiritual. What one takes in with religion or experiences is different from what someone else might take in from the exact same religion/church or whatever. Same with trying to define whatever you get out of any written book from any different religion. There is no wrong, and there is no right. There just is what you experience.



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ironman said:

Once again, my OP still stands. You have to realize things havn't changed. Before Jesus, man had no "go between". After the crucifixtion, Man had a go between, the ultimate sacrifice.


You say things haven't changed one sentance, then in the next two, explain how they have changed. Brilliant



ironman said:
ManusJustus said:
ironman said:
See this is just another example of somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about when it comes to the Bible.  Most of that took place in the old testament and was nullified by the coming of Jesus.

That doesnt change the logic of God.  Your still worshipping the same God who had all those crazy ideas, regardless if he still wants you to follow them or not.

Would you vote for a politician who who use to be a member of the Nationalist Socialist Party, thought that all non-whites should be thrown out of the country, and wanted to take away women's right to vote?  Hopefully, the answer is no.  But using your logic you would if he changed his mind, because all that past stuff doesnt matter anymore.

Once again, my OP still stands. You have to realize things havn't changed. Before Jesus, man had no "go between". After the crucifixtion, Man had a go between, the ultimate sacrifice.  

Please explain your point further. 

If God hasn't changed, that means he still has those crazy ideas, even though he doesn't require people to follow them.

If God has changed, that means that God realized how crazy his ideas where and took them back, meaning that God is far from perfect and owes a lot of apologies to humans living in BC times.



donathos said:
nordlead said:
donathos said:

I agree with you that strict and psychotic aren't the same thing, but the rule in question seems to be thus: that if a woman defends her husband from attack by grabbing the genitals of the attacker... that the woman's hand should be cut off.

That seems more than "strict" to me.  You don't agree?

Heh, well, stoning for adultery is pretty extreme too is it not?

Yes--I would call them both extreme.  But at least I can understand wanting to punish adultery in some way--I think that cheating is generally a morally reprehensible thing to do.

But this is different.  This is a woman attempting to defend her husband; not morally reprehensible at all, in my view.

ETA: What kind of God would punish a woman for trying to defend her husband?

honestly I don't have an answer for why it is morally reprehensible and I would have to ask one of my friends who is an anthropologist and pastor some questions. And for your final question, it doesn't say the problem is defending her husband, it is how she is defending her husband, but whatever I understand your question, but can't answer it.

@highwaystar

actually, if you refer to the Bible, you are typically referring to the Christian Bible by default. The Jews don't believe the new Testament and hence don't believe the savior described in the old testament came, and Islam is a totally different religion and their god Allah is not the God of the Bible. If you want to group Catholics, protestants, and all the other Christian religions together that is a different story. They all believe the same Bible, but sadly they argue over how to interpret it and thus create different denominations.

@donathos

The Old Testament is part of the Bible, and is worthy of discussion, but has no say on if you are going to heaven or not. As I stated earlier, a lot of the Old Testament shows how man is Sinful in Gods eyes and how we can never be holy. The Old Testament aslo provides a lot of text describing how the world was created, various history, geneology, and prophets describing what will happen in the future (a lot being what will happen in the new testament). But in the end, going to heaven ultimatly comes down to one thing only.

And from here I am out. If you want to talk about this subject, you can pm me. But I prefer not to create another debate on these forums about religion as I can't say it ever ends well, and this is a gaming forum.




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Haha that's a funny list! I can't believe some of those are actually in the bible like #11 about grabbing a guys nuts.



This confirms my beliefs about the bible, just gonna say that people shouldnt guide their life with a book which is clearly not written by god.