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Forums - General - The burqa and niqab debate

Sardauk on 24 June 2009
Kasz216 said:
Sardauk said:
Scoobes said:
Sardauk said:
kowenicki said:
I think they are both a sing of opression and of the faith.... as, in my opinion, islam opresses women.

Catholics also, but women fought back to gain some autonomy and recognition over the last decades.

 

I don't believe that burqa is a sign of faith in any f*cking way ! It is pure oppression to me and true moderate Islam has nothing to do with that.

 

I don't believe neither in women testimonies saying that they are ok with burqa.... .. they are either brainwashed or fear acts of revenge from their entourage.

Nobody can emancipate with that kind of restrictions...

My understanding of Islam is that the Qu'ran only states that women should only cover there hair and shoulders. Most of the other interpretations are actually cultural and not religious. However, a lot of people see them as one and the same and can't distinguish between the 2.

We have to go back a long way to find the orginal reasons for a lot of the rules in all religions and a lot of the them seem to be forgotten. Yet many still follow the rules without understanding. In this case however, I think the restrictions are actually cultural, but people are just as willing to accept them due to tradition.

Please note that I haven't actually read the Qu'ran, and the info above comes only from what I've learnt from muslim friends and courses on understanding different religions.

Yes you are right but I take the problem from the other side : In our modern society, I believe that the public sphere has to remain open.

Here in Belgium, we have quite a lot of young muslims from the first or second generation born in the country (parents are grand-parents are immigrants).

I see that they are really willing to abandon what they consider a family pressure about tradition/religion... when it fails, it is always because somebody else forced them too... especially the women ! And that is totally unacceptable.

IMO it is also binded to an improvement of their social condition. So when women are forced to live under those "strict traditions", it prevent them from reaching a higher social status.

While not true on this board... nearly every atheist i've met in real life has been catholic.... despite my area being largely protestant.  The harder cultural norms are pushed on people... the more they are going to reject them if possible.

The more you attack someoens cultural ideals... the more minorities who feel disfranchised are going to cling to them.

Maybe, but the problem relies inside the given community.

People claim that the burqa is a personal choice of the women and that nobody forced them to wear it ... but in fact, they choosed to wear it as a personal protection which is even worst.

 

I'm enraged when I hear the position of the pope and what the vatican tells me to do, but it doesn't prevent me from being a catholic and having my vision of the faith.

It is not about religion, it is about having power and influences on people (see Iran for the moment...).

Muslims living in the West have to understand that ... anyhow their children are already changing the way they see their faith.



 

Evan Wells (Uncharted 2): I think the differences that you see between any two games has much more to do with the developer than whether it’s on the Xbox or PS3.

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FootballFan on 24 June 2009

Its not a sign of faith. It a sign that Women arnt allowed to show there face in public because they are owned by a man and hence inferior. I dont no how this gets past equality laws in Britain to be honest. Islam opresses women. Fact. I think in the middle east there are all sorts of atrocious laws. In Iran they dont allow other religions. In Saudi Arabia women get stoned for being raped.



Kamal on 24 June 2009
Esmoreit said:
The dilemma is that, like with Christianity most muslims follow their faith the way they feel it pleases God-Allah. Due to my work I've spoken to several followers of Islam and most wear scarfs or Burqa's because they believe it's part of following their religion. This also accounted for single women by the way who's husband could not interfere. The same goes for muslim-girls who didn't even wear a headscarf. They believe that religion is what you practice in your head and your heart and nothing else.

I think that there is only a minority that is forced to wear a burqa by someone else.

Why can't every politician think like this?

This topic is a double edge sword, being a muslim myself I should be obligated to encourage muslim women to wear the Niqab and Hijab but  it's the person's choice if she wants to wear it or not since thats how free-will works. Families with strong cultural ties see that one of there female family members don't wear it, they think that the muslim community will see them in a different light.

Some people actually done their research Prophet's Muhammed (PBUH) wife Khadija was a famous business women and breadwinner of the family, with that as a example how can anyone say Muslims in a majority opress female liberation, this again can be tied with cultural influences or different social upbringing.


Edit: Football fan your a douchebag, as one why would a women be stoned because or being raped? This punishment is a delicate situations it rarely happens and the clasues of the adultery its hard to match.

Footballfan you also think am a sexist? Your lack of knowledge and understanding just astounds me.

 



"Life is but a gentle death. Fate is but a sickness that results in extinction and in the midst of all the uncertainty, lies resolve."

highwaystar101 on 24 June 2009

If the Burqa is the biggest oppression Muslim women face then they should consider themselves very lucky...

I think this is a case that requires some serious research. brb.



Rath on 24 June 2009
Kamal said:
Esmoreit said:
The dilemma is that, like with Christianity most muslims follow their faith the way they feel it pleases God-Allah. Due to my work I've spoken to several followers of Islam and most wear scarfs or Burqa's because they believe it's part of following their religion. This also accounted for single women by the way who's husband could not interfere. The same goes for muslim-girls who didn't even wear a headscarf. They believe that religion is what you practice in your head and your heart and nothing else.

I think that there is only a minority that is forced to wear a burqa by someone else.

Why can't every politician think like this?

This topic is a double edge sword, being a muslim myself I should be obligated to encourage muslim women to wear the Niqab and Hijab but  it's the person's choice if she wants to wear it or not since thats how free-will works. Families with strong cultural ties see that one of there female family members don't wear it, they think that the muslim community will see them in a different light.

But they still should not be able to force her to wear it - thats where her rights are eroded. I think we both agree that it should be a womans choice to wear it, we just disagree as to whether it usually is. I think that often a woman is forced to wear a burqa or niqab by her family.

Some people actually done their research Prophet's Muhammed (PBUH) wife Khadija was a famous business women and breadwinner of the family, with that as a example how can anyone say Muslims in a majority opress female liberation, this again can be tied with cultural influences or different social upbringing.

That was over a thousand years ago during the Islamic Golden Age. That period of time ended around 1300AD with the Crusades and the Mongols, ever since then the Islamic world has in general been far more socially conservative than the west.


Edit: Football fan your a douchebag, as one why would a women be stoned because or being raped? This punishment is a delicate situations it rarely happens and the clasues of the adultery its hard to match.

Under some extremely conservative applications of Sharia law that does happen. I'm actually against any religious laws being policed because they all seem to have some random and stupid shit in them. For example if the bible was put into law shellfish would be banned and children who disobeyed their parents would be stoned to death.

Footballfan you also think am a sexist? Your lack of knowledge and understanding just astounds me.

 

 



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Kamal on 25 June 2009
Rath said:
Kamal said:
Esmoreit said:
The dilemma is that, like with Christianity most muslims follow their faith the way they feel it pleases God-Allah. Due to my work I've spoken to several followers of Islam and most wear scarfs or Burqa's because they believe it's part of following their religion. This also accounted for single women by the way who's husband could not interfere. The same goes for muslim-girls who didn't even wear a headscarf. They believe that religion is what you practice in your head and your heart and nothing else.

I think that there is only a minority that is forced to wear a burqa by someone else.

Why can't every politician think like this?

This topic is a double edge sword, being a muslim myself I should be obligated to encourage muslim women to wear the Niqab and Hijab but  it's the person's choice if she wants to wear it or not since thats how free-will works. Families with strong cultural ties see that one of there female family members don't wear it, they think that the muslim community will see them in a different light.

But they still should not be able to force her to wear it - thats where her rights are eroded. I think we both agree that it should be a womans choice to wear it, we just disagree as to whether it usually is. I think that often a woman is forced to wear a burqa or niqab by her family.

Some people actually done their research Prophet's Muhammed (PBUH) wife Khadija was a famous business women and breadwinner of the family, with that as a example how can anyone say Muslims in a majority opress female liberation, this again can be tied with cultural influences or different social upbringing.

That was over a thousand years ago during the Islamic Golden Age. That period of time ended around 1300AD with the Crusades and the Mongols, ever since then the Islamic world has in general been far more socially conservative than the west.


Edit: Football fan your a douchebag, as one why would a women be stoned because or being raped? This punishment is a delicate situations it rarely happens and the clasues of the adultery its hard to match.

Under some extremely conservative applications of Sharia law that does happen. I'm actually against any religious laws being policed because they all seem to have some random and stupid shit in them. For example if the bible was put into law shellfish would be banned and children who disobeyed their parents would be stoned to death.

Footballfan you also think am a sexist? Your lack of knowledge and understanding just astounds me.

 

 

I agree with you Rath, no one should be forced to do something without their consent. For most muslims let women choose whether or not they do want to wear and wearing the hijab is a testament of faith, which shouldn't be done half-heartedly.

In the Qu'ran it also tells us to respect and abide the law of the land, this could only be negated if the impede's on the teaching's in the Qu'ran.



"Life is but a gentle death. Fate is but a sickness that results in extinction and in the midst of all the uncertainty, lies resolve."