More people... on percentage... that's obvious.

I mean does France really have a better education system overall?

Why are you using only the young people number?  Is it because you know the total college degree number for the US is much smaller.  Always been less then half what unemployment is?  Maybe that's why?

You're simply trying to talk your way out of something you know is true.

The US are more hardworking... why is that?  Wait are you finally starting to admit that people in different countries are in fact... different?  And that comparisons of different countries are problematic?

Funny when you were argueing this whole time that Europeon social saftey nets are better because of comparisons to the US.  Quoting things like Life expectancy while ignoring the fact that people in the US are well... harder working for one (stress), have unhealtheir diets, higher murder rate... etc. etc. etc.

The fact is... France is far from a model country.  Why?  "Socliast" countries get more and more unmanagable as they get bigger.  All the success stories are smaller scandanavian countries.

Only when all other things are equal.  Which would be untrue in a situation in which socalized healthcare took over vs non socialized healthcare.

Afterall, when you have socialzed healthcare, and are "bankrolled" by the government... you don't really need your job as much.

The hardest working and most productive person I know doesn't have healthcare... and often times isn't healthy.

Yet they came in just last week... and worked 60 hours because they needed their money and their job, and they were more productive then just about everyone else in their workplace who had other people to depend on should they lose their jobs.

No, i'm using the number, because the other figures for the US, include those with advanced degrees, college or higher, and they skew the data, the 20-25 figure is just those with college degrees and they have an unemployment of 7.7% vs. 5% in france, if you have a figure for all college grads, only, no advanced degrees, then show me, i'd love to see it.

No i'm not trying to talk my way out of anything, i'm serious, I haven't seen anything from you to show me wrong so far.

No, i'm using your figure, you say that the US workers are more productive per hour than the rest of the world, so i'm asking, ok, so what does that show except that they are more productive, and that other countries are less hardworking and more laid back?

You are arguing that we can't compare since they are different, but part of that difference is in the intervention of government, they have been more favorable to government for generations, andthe reason they are more favorable, is because it works, because they live it first hand.  And i've been pointing out to you how having those interventions have been largely a good thing, so far I haven't seen you show me eivdence to the contrary.

Why does it skew the numbers?  That number for the French included advanced degrees.

Your simply spinning.  That's all you've been doing this whole time.  France has serious serious problems... a lot of which caused by the saftey nets.  It's simple when your on welfare you don't really own anything...

Wealth is the most important factor to success.  France's social saftey nets provide more, but take away the oppurtunity to build wealth.

Additionally Americans are more hardworking, but this has nothing to do with the government, but Frances positives do?  Which are once again, not that positive in a lot of areas.

Ok, even with the advanced degrees in the US college grad unemployment in the US is around 5.9% at the moment, still higher than in france

How am I spinning, i've been showing data that supports my argument from the start.

Umm I never said france doesn't have problems, but I do point out how their safety nets have created more positives than negatives, and I have also pointed out how we have a lot of problems as well problems that could be solved by the implementation of more socialized nets, and so far you haven't shown that their negatives outweigh their positives or how those problems you've listed, like racial issues are due to the socialized nets.

Once again... at the moment... during something seen as a worst case unbelievably horrible scenario.

Horrible nearly worst case scenario = about as bad as France normally.

I don't see... "well the poor have better lives but they're more  likely to stay poor" as better honestly.  I see it as creating a permanent second class which tends to lead to anger, riots, loss of motivation and budget spending just to support the system... which is actually a number of problems with France today.

Since they spend about as much overbudget as we do... when we're fighting two wars.

It's short sighted to say france is better off... and even then it takes a severe economic downturn to say that.

I'm very much for moral stances, but when it comes to finances I like to think of myself as taking a more utilitarian point of view - in this context I may be using the word wrong.

What I mean is: what effect would this have? In the financial world, effects are all I care about.

No, because even with their high normal unemployment, they are one not only able to weather these problems better and are less volatile, but their systems in place are designed to give them a better outcome, hence why even with the higher unemployment most of the time, they still have a higher standard of living, because of the systems in place.

So you'd rather have the US version, which is that they have worse lives and are still likely to stay poor, with only a small possibility of improvement, that's not any better, in fact it may be worse.

Even when things are good for us, its not like France is suffering, they still have all thsoe systems to make sure that people are doing quite well, not to mention all that leisure time, and good health.

Also we've been accelerating our debts for quite some time Kaz, and nothing on the horizon shows our debt to be slowing down, so its not like we have our debt issues solved either.  We will need mcu hhigher taxes in the future and its not like we'll get anything in return out of it like they do.

anyways, its clear we aren't going to agree on this, plus its getting boring, so i'm done with this argument.

Are you suggesting that fear of death or the fear of the death of a loved one from illness is a viable path that society can take to make the workforce more productive?  The same argument could be made for the high productivity of concentration camps and gulags.

Why would you think the French live better lives? That's a silly assumption to make. You use the Human Development Index... but the Human development index has numerous problems.

Also it's not a "small" chance of improvement. Intergenerational mobility is actually quite good in the US.

58% of people in the US who were born into the lowest quartile move up.