@ sieanr

Epic has extensive experience with regard to optimizing their Unreal engine for the XBox 360 (Gears used multiple Xenon cores), however developers were really upset with Epic regarding the version of the Unreal engine available to them, especially with regard to the PS3 version which didn't use the Cell's SPEs.

So I was referring to their XBox 360 development experience rather than their experience with the PS3.

MikeB said: @ tordavis 640p is still considered High Definition Neither 576p (for example God of War 2 - PAL version) nor 640p are considered to be HDTV specifications. Minimal HDTV standard is 720p.

 Those are for the TVs, not for resolution output. And HD includes more than just the resolution (although I didn't think so at first, until I looked up the facts). Halo3 still dose textures, polygon count, draw distance, AI, etc. at a much higher level than 6th gen systems, and it does it in widescreen progressive scan.

@ LordTheNightKnight

What does subjective clasifications like being 6th or 7th gen got to do with HDTV resolutions? The Wii is usually considered to be 7th gen product and doesn't render in HD resolutions at all. However the PS2 is technically capable to handle HD resolutions, but for almost no game is using such features, mainly because the console isn't directed at HDTV owners at all and creating games in such resolutions would generally mean huge sacrifices, at least for complex 3D games.

Even a fourth-fifth generation console like the Amiga CD32 is able to output higher resolution than 720 x 576 (PAL), for example 800x600 (max resolution 1280 x 512 - 256000 colors out of 16.8 million) is one of the CD32's native resolutions. 800 x 600 also isn't a minimal HDTV resolution.

What the hell does it matter what label you attach to a resolution? HD, non-HD, semi-HD, the only label I need to know is 1152x640. You can "consider" it HD if you want, you can say it isn't HD if you want, either way it's 1152 pixels wide and 640 pixels tall.

Entroper said: What the hell does it matter what label you attach to a resolution? HD, non-HD, semi-HD, the only label I need to know is 1152x640. You can "consider" it HD if you want, you can say it isn't HD if you want, either way it's 1152 pixels wide and 640 pixels tall.

People are only interested because the XBox 360 is marketed as a 720p game console, together with the capability of offering "free" AA. Halo 3 being Microsoft's most important highest budget game, it was expected Microsoft would have at least pushed Halo 3 to XBox 360 advertised levels.

Clearly sacrifices have been made, this revolving technicals. Not commercial (huge budget) or cross platform development (XBox 360 exclusive, long development time) related sacrifices.

Well that's part of what I'm saying. 640p is 640p no matter how you spin it. It's less than 720p, but more than 480p. End of story.

MikeB said: @ LordTheNightKnight Twice the shader power. which every objective test (as in not trying to make Sony, Microsoft, or even Nintendo look better than the other) rates as higher capability No, the Xenos is just more flexible. However the SPUs are also flexible in what ways they can help the overall more powerful RSX. the XDR has a faster clock speed XDR is higher clocked but also offers less latency than DDR2 / DDR3.

 Stop posting that picture.  That is not right at all.  Read this article and get back with me.

http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1

MikeB said: @ LordTheNightKnight Halo3 still does textures, polygon count, draw distance, AI, etc. at a much higher level than 6th gen systems, and it does it in widescreen progressive scan. What does subjective clasifications like being 6th or 7th gen got to do with HDTV resolutions? The Wii is usually considered to be 7th gen product and doesn't render in HD resolutions at all. However the PS2 is technically capable to handle HD resolutions, but for almost no game is using such features, mainly because the console isn't directed at HDTV owners at all and creating games in such resolutions would generally mean huge sacrifices, at least for complex 3D games. Even a fourth-fifth generation console like the Amiga CD32 is able to output higher resolution than 720 x 576 (PAL), for example 800x600 (max resolution 1280 x 512 - 256000 colors out of 16.8 million) is one of the CD32's native resolutions. 800 x 600 also isn't a minimal HDTV resolution.

 You didn't really read my post at all. The bolded part was clearly the point I was making, not resolution, or "being" 6th gen. You can't win an argument by countering points your opponent didn't even make.

MikeB said: Entroper said: What the hell does it matter what label you attach to a resolution? HD, non-HD, semi-HD, the only label I need to know is 1152x640. You can "consider" it HD if you want, you can say it isn't HD if you want, either way it's 1152 pixels wide and 640 pixels tall. People are only interested because the XBox 360 is marketed as a 720p game console, together with the capability of offering "free" AA. Halo 3 being Microsoft's most important highest budget game, it was expected Microsoft would have at least pushed Halo 3 to XBox 360 advertised levels. Clearly sacrifices have been made, this revolving technicals. Not commercial (huge budget) or cross platform development (XBox 360 exclusive, long development time) related sacrifices.

IMO compromises were made, not sacrifices. There is a difference between giving up something for nothing and giving up something for a benefit in another area.

Omac said: MikeB said: @ LordTheNightKnight Twice the shader power. which every objective test (as in not trying to make Sony, Microsoft, or even Nintendo look better than the other) rates as higher capability No, the Xenos is just more flexible. However the SPUs are also flexible in what ways they can help the overall more powerful RSX. the XDR has a faster clock speed XDR is higher clocked but also offers less latency than DDR2 / DDR3. Stop posting that picture. That is not right at all. Read this article and get back with me. http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1

 Not the infamous dpad.gotfrag article. *rolls eyes*