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Forums - Gaming - Microsoft Should Stop Taking Jabs At Gran Turismo

yo_john117 on 10 June 2009
deadt0m said:
I truly don't give a fuck about racing sims at all, but let's be serious for a second here. To call Gran Turismo a racing sim, or to act like Gran Turismo even approaches realism, is mentally bankrupt. Any "racing sim" where your car exists in a bubble of force that prevents collisions or damage is not a "sim" at all, it is a pile of bullshit. Watching fanboys jump to the defense of Gran Turismo and talk about how realistic and awesome it is, as if they spend the time they aren't playing games or acting like douchebags on forums driving around in their sports car at 180 mph, makes me want to vomit.

Like I said, I wouldn't play Gran Turismo or Forza if you paid me, so I have absolutely no vested interest in this discussion, I'm just sick and tired of reading the same bullshit threads on this forum every single day, filled with the same worthless tools acting like they are fucking Mario Andretti.

Here is the bottom line: if you think a racing game where your car is immune to damage is anything even APPROACHING a sim, you should be forced to go through life in a helmet for your own safety, and should be castrated so that you can never have children as fucking stupid as you are. Mario Kart is closer to a racing sim than Gran Turismo is, because at least in Mario Kart there are negative consequences to running into things at high speeds.

In conclusion: if any of you tools actually owned a high performance automobile, or had any fucking clue whatsoever about the physics of driving such a car at extreme speeds, you would not be on VGChartz engaging in console-driven flame wars about racing games, you would be driving those cars or at the jobs which allowed you to pay for them, so spare us your meaningless armchair thesis on the subject of realism please. And if you think a game with damage-immune cars is at the forefront of realism, you're probably too stupid to even read this, so I probably just wasted my time.

Omg!! epic post!



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Garamond on 10 June 2009
kanariya said:
deadt0m said:
kanariya said:
Do you know what GT Academy is? lol

Industry leaders PlayStation and Nissan have come together to create the ultimate competitive driving test – GT Academy. GT Academy is an eight-month European competition which combines virtual and real-life racing to make the wildest dreams of two aspiring race drivers come true.

 

I never said that no one who has ever played GT could drive a race car, I said that no one who could drive a race car was on VGChartz starting 4-6 new flame wars about GT vs. Forza every single day.  Did you know that some pro basketball players play NBA Live?  I guess that's where they learned to shoot, dribble, and dunk.  You have absolutely no point at all, and clearly only skimmed what I wrote to begin with.

 

Since you're clearly such an expert on the subject, though, please explain to me the intense realism behind uncrashable cars.

 

Well, it's the THING to talk about these few days. Give it another week and they will go away.

 

FYI, NBA players do play NBA games. And some GMs use NBA Live as a scouting tool. For example, Daryl Morey the GM of Houston Rockets has been using NBA Live to scout.

 

Sometimes video game satistics and skills can really apply to real life.

He only uses NBA Live to sim because he knows Yao Ming and McGrady won't ever be healthy on the court together anywhere else.



kanariya on 10 June 2009
deadt0m said:

Since you're clearly such an expert on the subject, though, please explain to me the intense realism behind uncrashable cars.

 

This is something debatetable. It's gonna be long and I don't have time to go into it right now.

There is no driving sim out there can replicate the real driving situation.

 

One of the most important aspect that driving sim can teach is to be consistent with the perfect driving line, and the ability to learn the tracks without being there.

 



kanariya on 10 June 2009
Garamond said:
kanariya said:

 

Well, it's the THING to talk about these few days. Give it another week and they will go away.

 

FYI, NBA players do play NBA games. And some GMs use NBA Live as a scouting tool. For example, Daryl Morey the GM of Houston Rockets has been using NBA Live to scout.

 

Sometimes video game satistics and skills can really apply to real life.

He only uses NBA Live to sim because he knows Yao Ming and McGrady won't ever be healthy on the court together anywhere else.

 

He was using the game's satistics to find cheap players with potential.Eg, Scola, Lowry, Wafer, etc.

Yao and Tmac came to Houston way before Daryl did.



FilaBrasileiro on 10 June 2009
deadt0m said:
kanariya said:
deadt0m said:
kanariya said:
Do you know what GT Academy is? lol

Industry leaders PlayStation and Nissan have come together to create the ultimate competitive driving test – GT Academy. GT Academy is an eight-month European competition which combines virtual and real-life racing to make the wildest dreams of two aspiring race drivers come true.

 

I never said that no one who has ever played GT could drive a race car, I said that no one who could drive a race car was on VGChartz starting 4-6 new flame wars about GT vs. Forza every single day. Did you know that some pro basketball players play NBA Live? I guess that's where they learned to shoot, dribble, and dunk. You have absolutely no point at all, and clearly only skimmed what I wrote to begin with.

 

Since you're clearly such an expert on the subject, though, please explain to me the intense realism behind uncrashable cars.

 

Well, it's the THING to talk about these few days. Give it another week and they will go away.

 

FYI, NBA players do play NBA games. And some GMs use NBA Live as a scouting tool. For example, Daryl Morey the GM of Houston Rockets has been using NBA Live to scout.

 

Sometimes video game satistics and skills can really apply to real life.

I know NBA players play NBA games, that's EXACTLY what I just said. That doesn't mean they are good at basketball because they played NBA Live, it means that they are good at basketball and they played NBA Live. Just like that guy's race win doesn't mean he is good at racing because of Gran Turismo, it means he is good at racing and Gran Turismo.

 

How many more times are you going to reply to me without addressing the fundamental issue here: How can a racing game with uncrashable cars be considered realistic?

Because driving physics and how the car behaves is much more important than damage? Damage is cool and all but it's not what a racing sim is about, you're not trying to hit other folks to see what damage will look like. You're trying to race and take milliseconds off your time in a given track. This ain't demolition derby, when you drive around you want to see how the car will behave when you take a sharp turn, how it'll accellerate, how it'll break, etc...damage is a nice bonus, but it's not the most important thing at all.


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FilaBrasileiro on 10 June 2009
kanariya said:
deadt0m said:

Since you're clearly such an expert on the subject, though, please explain to me the intense realism behind uncrashable cars.

 

This is something debatetable. It's gonna be long and I don't have time to go into it right now.

There is no driving sim out there can replicate the real driving situation.

 

One of the most important aspect that driving sim can teach is to be consistent with the perfect driving line, and the ability to learn the tracks without being there.

 

This. But I would never say never, we're definitely making big advancements in that area, but we're not there yet, maybe give it another 10-20 years.

 



deadt0m on 10 June 2009
kanariya said:
deadt0m said:

Since you're clearly such an expert on the subject, though, please explain to me the intense realism behind uncrashable cars.

 

This is something debatetable. It's gonna be long and I don't have time to go into it right now.

There is no driving sim out there can replicate the real driving situation.

 

One of the most important aspect that driving sim can teach is to be consistent with the perfect driving line, and the ability to learn the tracks without being there.

 

No, I'm afraid there's no debate to be had.  I'd say that the most important aspect of high-speed car racing, especially on twisty road courses, is pretty much NOT DYING.  I don't care how perfectly the courses are recreated, because let's face it, 99% of the players will never have a chance to drive on any of those courses.

 

It's quite simple:  a car racing game with no collisions and no car damage is not realistic.  That's it.  That doesn't make it wrong to like Gran Turismo, if you think it's a fun game, more power to you.  I'm just sick of reading fanboys call Forza "laughable" when compared to the "ultimate realism" of Gran Turismo when Gran Turismo is only slightly more realistic than, say...  Dead Rising.

 

Edit:

 

@ Filabrasiliero -  I quoted your post and typed a long reply, but apparently it didn't get posted, so you'll have to settle for this abridged version, sorry.

Obviously the physics of how a car handles is important, but the fundamental building block of physics is the manner in which solid objects interact when they collide.  Any "physics engine" that completely ignores that aspect is not a "physics engine" at all, it is an arcade racing engine of whatever degree of sophistication.  As for the whole thing about precision being important because you are trying to get the best time, go ask Dale Earnhardt Junior if his #1 worry was his dad's time at the Daytona 500 when he crashed into a wall.  I'd imagine he'd be slightly more concerned about the fact that the car was completely destroyed and his dad was killed.



kanariya on 10 June 2009
FilaBrasileiro said:
kanariya said:
deadt0m said:

Since you're clearly such an expert on the subject, though, please explain to me the intense realism behind uncrashable cars.

 

This is something debatetable. It's gonna be long and I don't have time to go into it right now.

There is no driving sim out there can replicate the real driving situation.

 

One of the most important aspect that driving sim can teach is to be consistent with the perfect driving line, and the ability to learn the tracks without being there.

 

This. But I would never say never, we're definitely making big advancements in that area, but we're not there yet, maybe give it another 10-20 years.

 

 

I didn't say never but I will be really hard to archieve.

Maybe one day that the G-force is able to be created without actually moving.



kanariya on 10 June 2009
deadt0m said:

No, I'm afraid there's no debate to be had.  I'd say that the most important aspect of high-speed car racing, especially on twisty road courses, is pretty much NOT DYING.  I don't care how perfectly the courses are recreated, because let's face it, 99% of the players will never have a chance to drive on any of those courses.

 

It's quite simple:  a car racing game with no collisions and no car damage is not realistic.  That's it.  That doesn't make it wrong to like Gran Turismo, if you think it's a fun game, more power to you.  I'm just sick of reading fanboys call Forza "laughable" when compared to the "ultimate realism" of Gran Turismo when Gran Turismo is only slightly more realistic than, say...  Dead Rising.

 

Edit:

 

@ Filabrasiliero -  I quoted your post and typed a long reply, but apparently it didn't get posted, so you'll have to settle for this abridged version, sorry.

Obviously the physics of how a car handles is important, but the fundamental building block of physics is the manner in which solid objects interact when they collide.  Any "physics engine" that completely ignores that aspect is not a "physics engine" at all, it is an arcade racing engine of whatever degree of sophistication.  As for the whole thing about precision being important because you are trying to get the best time, go ask Dale Earnhardt Junior if his #1 worry was his dad's time at the Daytona 500 when he crashed into a wall.  I'd imagine he'd be slightly more concerned about the fact that the car was completely destroyed and his dad was killed.

 

I agree no damage is not realistic. Even if there's damage, you still get a retry.
Racing is much more than collision and damage. You don't need to experience a crash to become a good driver.

Do you think it won't be realistic unless the game can kill you? I don't think that's the meaning of simulation.


No driving sim now can create the G-force you get at high speed and the fear you get on the track, but there are many other things that a sim can help you get better.

There are many driving fundamentals like braking point, driving line, tracks, general car behavior, reflex to be learnt. And these stuff you can really learn from playing the sims extensively.

I'm not saying anyone can achieve that, but one of the GT acedemy winner is a taxi driver who had no track experience other than playing GT.



Mirson on 10 June 2009
Strategyking92 said:
What a fanboy.

The car damage in forza made the experience laughable? lol.
I guess the zero damage in the GT games only made the experience unlaughable :P

He's the same person who wrote that Killzone 2 whinefest article when Edge gave KZ2 a 7. What a pansy.