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Forums - PC - Microsoft has to do something about the PC pirates.

Slimebeast said:
Squilliam said:
Thats an average of 6 per year in 20 years of PC gaming. Considering that many of those games I got in compilation packs with 4-5 different PC games and many others were gifts from friends who didn't use them anymore its probably no more than 3-4 per year actual purchases.


Yeah now that I think of it... there's a very high proportion of old games in your library - games from the pre-broadband era - but very few new games...

I wonder why you have 'left' PC gaming lol...! 

Because modern PC gaming sucks! I have more crashes, more instability and more problems actually running the stupid software nowadays than I ever did back in the day. I have a gaming PC with an 8800GT and a Core 2 Duo 2.4 and I got Fallout 3 on the Xbox 360 because I couldn't be bothered with the PC version. I have counted a total of 3 crashes in thousands of hours of 360 gaming. I could hit that mark in 30 mins or less with the wrong PC title. Then theres other issues like my %*$^ing antivirus software picking up L4D as a virus so I couldn't play the game, I had to spend hours figuring out what was wrong. Had I bought the 360 version it would have been absolutely no problem. Mod support is great, but often it simply breaks the game and I have to spend more time fixing it back to its original state.



Tease.

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I say go south park style and get a bunch of snipers on a ship :o



Kenny said:
Squilliam said:

Your post has highlighted the flaws in the current approach, as well as why it's just wrong headed.  The DRM approach has resulted in an environment where the value of the pirated version of a game is actually greater than the legitimate copy, due to the various restrictions imposed on legitimate buyers. 

The solution, however, is not to keep applying the stick over the carrot, because further reducing the value of the legitimate product is not the way to go.  Rather, the solution should center on making the legitimate copy worth more than the pirated version by increasing the former's value, as opposed to (attempting to) decrease the latter's.  You know, build software around the explicit expectation that it will be pirated, but offer something extra to the fellows who are willing to give you their money. 

Piracy has become incredibly easy for anyone with any computer savviness, and therefore must be accepted as a reality of the market, no matter how wrong anyone may think it is.  Hence, notions of right and wrong aside, the developer has to offer a convincing argument that the real deal is better, at which they have largely failed up to now.

This. There is no better answer than this. To get what you want is to give what they want. That is the path of least resistance and the most successful path. No empire has ever dominated forever based on control of iron will. The illusion of freedom, the belief of self control is the utmost of value to almost everyone on this planet. To offer the better version to payers will signifigantly increase purchase. To iron wall in an attempt to stop piracy will meet with failed attempts.

Let's look at the PS2, PS3, Wii, DS, PSP as a sample. The PS2, Wii, PSP, DS use copy protection. They are all hacked consoles. After than they have little in common. Usebase, tech, os, target audience all different. This we can agree on. Why is it then the PS3 has overall seen more succesful security than the PS2 and the Wii. Simple Sony decided to leave an open door specificly for the homebrew company. Because they did not need to find a way to run unauthorized code on the PS3 this has led to a much less effort  for an exploit search. Rather than a universal search by the homebrew comunity. Because of this primary reason of insight for Sony to give what the homebrew comunity wanted. They managed to get what they wanted in return. Reduced piracy.

This is not an argueable concept. This fundamental strategy is thousands of years old. To get what you want with least damage is to comprimise. The more you resist the more they push back. The more kinetic energy stored the same for release. These are philosphies and universal laws are just as applicable in reality as they are in business. They are often ignored under the delusional influence of money.

 

@Squalliam

I'll disagree with your oopinion on qaulity of PC games. The game qaulity has never dropped if you look at more than the big companies. There variety, amount and qaulity have always been there. While consoles have the convience of effiency they are typicly don't have the variety. Either way game libriaries tastes vary and if one doesn't work for you then that's understandable.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

.jayderyu said:

This. There is no better answer than this. To get what you want is to give what they want. That is the path of least resistance and the most successful path. No empire has ever dominated forever based on control of iron will. The illusion of freedom, the belief of self control is the utmost of value to almost everyone on this planet. To offer the better version to payers will signifigantly increase purchase. To iron wall in an attempt to stop piracy will meet with failed attempts.

Let's look at the PS2, PS3, Wii, DS, PSP as a sample. The PS2, Wii, PSP, DS use copy protection. They are all hacked consoles. After than they have little in common. Usebase, tech, os, target audience all different. This we can agree on. Why is it then the PS3 has overall seen more succesful security than the PS2 and the Wii. Simple Sony decided to leave an open door specificly for the homebrew company. Because they did not need to find a way to run unauthorized code on the PS3 this has led to a much less effort  for an exploit search. Rather than a universal search by the homebrew comunity. Because of this primary reason of insight for Sony to give what the homebrew comunity wanted. They managed to get what they wanted in return. Reduced piracy.

This is not an argueable concept. This fundamental strategy is thousands of years old. To get what you want with least damage is to comprimise. The more you resist the more they push back. The more kinetic energy stored the same for release. These are philosphies and universal laws are just as applicable in reality as they are in business. They are often ignored under the delusional influence of money.

 

@Squalliam

I'll disagree with your oopinion on qaulity of PC games. The game qaulity has never dropped if you look at more than the big companies. There variety, amount and qaulity have always been there. While consoles have the convience of effiency they are typicly don't have the variety. Either way game libriaries tastes vary and if one doesn't work for you then that's understandable.

What I was talking about was bring the console model in a way to the PC with hardware based content protection. I want to not face the hassle of being treated like a criminal, not having to use discs etc but I also want the games to be protected. Though TBH most homebrewers seem to want to make games for systems but the net result of their efforts is piracy. The difference with the PS3 is you still cannot make homebrew games it more to satiate the tech enthusiasts and give them access to the Cell which would obviously be quite the draw card. The Xbox 360 doesn't offer the tech enthusiasts an opening and yet the hardware itself hasn't been broken, only the DVD drive.

I like a certain style of game, but really what I have at present makes me feel no need to expand beyond it. I don't want any strategy game which is not Age of Empires or Civilization really. Indie games can be cool, but its not really worth the effort for me to seek them out.



Tease.

But how can you ever offer better value from buying a $39 game, or even a $19 game than downloading all games for free directly to your hard drive?

Yes of course, it shouldn't be that the game makers themselves make the legit verions even more inconvenient than the pirated copies, by putting in DRM and stuff. I agree with that. But how can they really increase the value?

If it was easy, they would have made it already.

There might come up new ideas in the future, but until then I think developers should cut back making PC versions alltogether.

But then again, that would punish the few innocent PC guys who pay for their games cause they wouldn't get much value out of their gaming PCs and would simply be forced to buy consoles instead.



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My friend downloaded games of the internet, he got totally owned by viruses. I made him pay me $60 for fix it for him because he was scared to lose his illicit materials so I charged him to do it for him instead. One reason not to download is viruses, you're hacking your system to install the software sometimes by adding things to registry etc. (I downloaded a couple of older games which I didn't have the discs for)



Tease.

Squilliam said:
My friend downloaded games of the internet, he got totally owned by viruses. I made him pay me $60 for fix it for him because he was scared to lose his illicit materials so I charged him to do it for him instead. One reason not to download is viruses, you're hacking your system to install the software sometimes by adding things to registry etc. (I downloaded a couple of older games which I didn't have the discs for)

What if Microsoft hacked into torrent sites and added viruses to all illegal game files?  They would have to do it secretly but that could work, even though it's illegal.



voty2000 said:

What if Microsoft hacked into torrent sites and added viruses to all illegal game files?  They would have to do it secretly but that could work, even though it's illegal.

They wouldn't have to. They already uploaded 'leaked' versions of certain games to torrent sites to catch out people who have hacked Xbox 360s on Xbox Live.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
voty2000 said:

What if Microsoft hacked into torrent sites and added viruses to all illegal game files?  They would have to do it secretly but that could work, even though it's illegal.

They wouldn't have to. They already uploaded 'leaked' versions of certain games to torrent sites to catch out people who have hacked Xbox 360s on Xbox Live.


Is that true and how does that work? Is MS then able to track down and sort out the users playing those 'leaked' versions on Xbox Live?



Slimebeast said:
Squilliam said:
voty2000 said:

What if Microsoft hacked into torrent sites and added viruses to all illegal game files?  They would have to do it secretly but that could work, even though it's illegal.

They wouldn't have to. They already uploaded 'leaked' versions of certain games to torrent sites to catch out people who have hacked Xbox 360s on Xbox Live.


Is that true and how does that work? Is MS then able to track down and sort out the users playing those 'leaked' versions on Xbox Live?

Well they did upload the copies themselves so yeah they could definately track down the people who used them. Its probably got something to do with how the game identifies itself on Xbox Live. People wouldn't know its different until they got banned.



Tease.