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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Malstrom: "the whimper of hardcore dreams".

Avinash_Tyagi on 04 June 2009

Wii and PS3 don't support similar HD graphics Squill, you'll have to dumb down the graphics to Wii quality.

Also while developers might try and ignore making games for motion control this gen, the problem is that these controls will likely be the default control for the next gen, forcing developers to make motion control games



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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joora on 04 June 2009

Wii will always be doomed because Nintendo has the strongest first party out of big three, and it is difficult for third parties to sell big numbers. But judging by the current situation on the market it seems that the audience doesn't care much. They just want to play - using motion controls.

So, 3rd parties will just have to try harder. And judging by the stuff we've seen on E3, namely Red Steel 2, Spyborgs and the Grinder, it seems that the situation will only get better.



.

Squilliam on 04 June 2009
superchunk said:
Squilliam said:

Still the Wii gets few major I.Ps outside of Nintendos control and those I.Ps which it gets aren't given the care and attention that you would expect from a leading system. The best explanation I can give is that the 3rd party publishers are trying to protect what they feel is their best interests by not supporting Nintendo fully. Nintendo released the Wii because it benefited themselves, Microsoft released the Xbox 360 to form partnerships with others.

Because the actions of many of the large publishers don't entirely make sense in many ways until you consider that they don't like the Wii and what the Wii means for their businesses. Nintendo has never had a stunning relationship with 3rd parties, and that has continued right to this day.

So, the fact that most of those core oreinted IPs are built ground up for Wii and are exclusive while looking, finally, like next gen games, somehow means they aren't given the care and attention you would expect?

Again, I think you are ignoring the obvious.

Sure there are a ton of trashware, but every leading console has an abundance of that as that makes easy money. But you can't say Silent Hill, Dead Space, The Conduit, Gladiator AD, Monster Hunter 3, The Grinder, EA's WM+ sport games, Spyborgs, GH/RB next iterations, Ghostbusters, Final Fantasy: CC, No More Heroes 2, TMNT: Smash up, Ju-On: The Grudge, RE:dc, Fragile, Red Steel 2, Shaun White, etc are not examples of 3rd parties putting solid support on Wii.

All of these are built on Wii hardware and either exclusive or have every feature as their HD counterparts, plus usually extra stuff.

As I have said before by the end of 2010 you will decidedly be proven wrong as Wii will be unquestionably the 3rd party core IP king as it is in overall IP count now.

2010 will be too late, 2009 is already too late as well. The third party publishers have helped to define what role the Wii plays and what role the Xbox 360 and PS3 play in the market. The content moves to the market and the market moves to the content. What that means is that there are far more HD console FPS fans (In spite of many professing the Wiimotes superiority here) there are more WRPG fans, there are more... etc. The fans which select which market to go to have already made up their mind. Im not saying that the Wii will not make progress around the margins, im saying that the Wiis role as a whole has been mostly defined already.



Tease.

Squilliam on 04 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Wii and PS3 don't support similar HD graphics Squill, you'll have to dumb down the graphics to Wii quality.

Also while developers might try and ignore making games for motion control this gen, the problem is that these controls will likely be the default control for the next gen, forcing developers to make motion control games

All im saying is that WM+ and its libraries developed for the Wii will mean instant acceptance of the Sony mote because the libraries are portable. There doesn't need to be a Wii version because those libraries are agnostic to the games they are used for. Nintendo essentially gave Sony a helping hand by releasing M+, because without it they could not have released the device.



Tease.

Bladeforce on 04 June 2009

"He seems like a dick to me" Until any one of you can decently explain the Disruption technique and then actually talk sense this thread is really doomed!



"...the best way to prepare [to be a programmer] is to write programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and fished out listings of their operating system." - Bill Gates (Microsoft Corporation)

"Hey, Steve, just because you broke into Xerox's house before I did and took the TV doesn't mean I can't go in later and take the stereo." - Bill Gates (Microsoft Corporation)

Bill Gates had Mac prototypes to work from, and he was known to be obsessed with trying to make Windows as good as SAND (Steve's Amazing New Device), as a Microsoft exec named it. It was the Mac that Microsoft took for its blueprint on how to make a GUI.

 

""Windows [n.] - A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.""

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Avinash_Tyagi on 04 June 2009

Sorry Squill, the problem for the Purple wand is that there is no initial base for it, while the Wiimote has a 50 million plus base, by the time the purple wand is out it'll probably be somewhere between 75-95 million base, so there will be little reason to port to the Purple wand over the Wiimote



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

superchunk on 04 June 2009
Squilliam said:
superchunk said:
Squilliam said:

Still the Wii gets few major I.Ps outside of Nintendos control and those I.Ps which it gets aren't given the care and attention that you would expect from a leading system. The best explanation I can give is that the 3rd party publishers are trying to protect what they feel is their best interests by not supporting Nintendo fully. Nintendo released the Wii because it benefited themselves, Microsoft released the Xbox 360 to form partnerships with others.

Because the actions of many of the large publishers don't entirely make sense in many ways until you consider that they don't like the Wii and what the Wii means for their businesses. Nintendo has never had a stunning relationship with 3rd parties, and that has continued right to this day.

So, the fact that most of those core oreinted IPs are built ground up for Wii and are exclusive while looking, finally, like next gen games, somehow means they aren't given the care and attention you would expect?

Again, I think you are ignoring the obvious.

Sure there are a ton of trashware, but every leading console has an abundance of that as that makes easy money. But you can't say Silent Hill, Dead Space, The Conduit, Gladiator AD, Monster Hunter 3, The Grinder, EA's WM+ sport games, Spyborgs, GH/RB next iterations, Ghostbusters, Final Fantasy: CC, No More Heroes 2, TMNT: Smash up, Ju-On: The Grudge, RE:dc, Fragile, Red Steel 2, Shaun White, etc are not examples of 3rd parties putting solid support on Wii.

All of these are built on Wii hardware and either exclusive or have every feature as their HD counterparts, plus usually extra stuff.

As I have said before by the end of 2010 you will decidedly be proven wrong as Wii will be unquestionably the 3rd party core IP king as it is in overall IP count now.

2010 will be too late, 2009 is already too late as well. The third party publishers have helped to define what role the Wii plays and what role the Xbox 360 and PS3 play in the market. The content moves to the market and the market moves to the content. What that means is that there are far more HD console FPS fans (In spite of many professing the Wiimotes superiority here) there are more WRPG fans, there are more... etc. The fans which select which market to go to have already made up their mind. Im not saying that the Wii will not make progress around the margins, im saying that the Wiis role as a whole has been mostly defined already.

Last gen had >200m consoles sold. This gen has proven to add a lot of console owners so it should easily break 250m, yet only about 100m have been sold so far, with already a very high number of multi console ownership.

As the big games show on Wii in equal or superior overall games, or as exclusives, so too will more multi-console ownership and the remaining 150m+ future console owners.

Your belittling the eventual growth of the industry. Wii will gain 50% marketshare this year and will continue to move upward in core title ownership. Its motion controls will define the control ownership as much as dual shock did in the past and NES/SNES before that.



Squilliam on 04 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Sorry Squill, the problem for the Purple wand is that there is no initial base for it, while the Wiimote has a 50 million plus base, by the time the purple wand is out it'll probably be somewhere between 75-95 million base, so there will be little reason to port to the Purple wand over the Wiimote

If the libraries already exist, then theres no marginal cost for using them on the PS3 version as well. It costs them precisely nothing to use them, so why would they not? Even another 50,000 sales would justify the effort. The Wii M+ software base will help Sony, they could not have released their peripheral if M+ didn't exist. Its a free level of adoption, which is why we only found out about it once the M+ peripheral was about to be unveiled.



Tease.

liquidninja on 04 June 2009
Kenny said:
Dick or not, I think he's got a point, though not the one he's trying to make. The Natal and the PS3's wand are so fundamentally different (one that dispenses with buttons altogether vs one that is essentially a different implementation of the WM+), that there likely won't be any PS360 games that use motion, at least in the same way. Thus, for motion games, at least, the Wii immediately becomes the most viable.

HOWEVER, I think he's grossly overestimating the developers' likelihood of making use of these new control schemes. The most probable outcome is this: When you combine high development costs associated with HD games with the risk factor of largely motion-driven games and the fragmentation of the PS360 bloc he mentioned, the logical conclusion is simply to ignore these new control schemes, and keep producing conventional games.

I think he was saying this also. Except he also says motion control is the future. Which it is because more and more people are going to demand motion controls because the Wii is building a up expectation for those in games increasinglly.  Of course publishers will only provide those features on the console that has the most marketshare in that respect which is the Wii.



Bladeforce on 04 June 2009

@ squilliam

"If the libraries already exist, then theres no marginal cost for using them on the PS3 version as well. It costs them precisely nothing to use them, so why would they not? Even another 50,000 sales would justify the effort. The Wii M+ software base will help Sony, they could not have released their peripheral if M+ didn't exist. Its a free level of adoption, which is why we only found out about it once the M+ peripheral was about to be unveiled."

PLEASE if you dont understand disruption I wouldnt talk about it you obviously just dont understand it!



"...the best way to prepare [to be a programmer] is to write programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and fished out listings of their operating system." - Bill Gates (Microsoft Corporation)

"Hey, Steve, just because you broke into Xerox's house before I did and took the TV doesn't mean I can't go in later and take the stereo." - Bill Gates (Microsoft Corporation)

Bill Gates had Mac prototypes to work from, and he was known to be obsessed with trying to make Windows as good as SAND (Steve's Amazing New Device), as a Microsoft exec named it. It was the Mac that Microsoft took for its blueprint on how to make a GUI.

 

""Windows [n.] - A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.""