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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Malstrom: "the whimper of hardcore dreams".

Avinash_Tyagi on 05 June 2009
jammy2211 said:
Companies have spent the last two years porting games between the PS2 / PSP and Wii, one with no motion controls at all to one with motion controls. Further companies are already porting Wii games with motion controls to PS3 / 360.

Why would these consoles getting motion controls suddenly make these ports unviable, if they already port freely regardless of control interface?


Wii is more similar to a control pad then NATAL and the Purple want, with its many buttons and nunchuk with analog stick, so porting between PS2 and PSP to Wii and back is not that difficult, NATAL espeically doesn't have any buttons or sticks so controls have to be wildly different, so much that the games will probably have little in common.

 

Also not many games get ported between the PS3/360 and the Wii, because the Wii's graphical capability is so much lower, most games have to be downgraded to be ported to the Wii or a totally different version has to be made, and the few games that are moved from the Wii to the PS3 and 360, will look very poor graphically on those consoles.

 

As a result it is both the wildly different control schemes, NATAL and the Purple Wand seem even more divorced from the gamepad then the Wiimote, and the difference in grpahical ability, that will make certain that ports betwen the three are limited at best



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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Killergran on 05 June 2009

Basically, what Malstrom suggested was that 'Hardcore HD Motion gaming' will not be possible this generation. Because there simply isn't any market for it. There cannot be a market for it.

Squilliam said:
Content moves to the market and the market moves to the content. What that means is that there are far more HD console FPS fans (In spite of many professing the Wiimotes superiority here) there are more WRPG fans, there are more... etc. The fans which select which market to go to have already made up their mind.
That is, people that really want motion controls have already gone for the Wii. People that want traditional experiences have gone for the PS360. Getting the motionball rolling on PS360 will be difficult.

Aj_habfan said:
I don't think third parties will just abandon PS3/360. They would be quicker to just abandon the "hardcore" motion control games and stick to the normal controlled ones, while releasing cheap casual games, if any at all, for the motion devices.
Yes. That's exactly what Malstrom said. I'm kinda surprised you agreed with him.



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jammy2211 on 05 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
jammy2211 said:
Companies have spent the last two years porting games between the PS2 / PSP and Wii, one with no motion controls at all to one with motion controls. Further companies are already porting Wii games with motion controls to PS3 / 360.

Why would these consoles getting motion controls suddenly make these ports unviable, if they already port freely regardless of control interface?


Wii is more similar to a control pad then NATAL and the Purple want, with its many buttons and nunchuk with analog stick, so porting between PS2 and PSP to Wii and back is not that difficult, NATAL espeically doesn't have any buttons or sticks so controls have to be wildly different, so much that the games will probably have little in common.

 

Also not many games get ported between the PS3/360 and the Wii, because the Wii's graphical capability is so much lower, most games have to be downgraded to be ported to the Wii or a totally different version has to be made, and the few games that are moved from the Wii to the PS3 and 360, will look very poor graphically on those consoles.

 

As a result it is both the wildly different control schemes, NATAL and the Purple Wand seem even more divorced from the gamepad then the Wiimote, and the difference in grpahical ability, that will make certain that ports betwen the three are limited at best

 You're missing the point though, companies can freely port regardless of controls already, and for some reason that is supposed to change? If a game is being designed in a way so that it can only play on one motion control then it'll be budgeted appropriate, no ones going to make a $20 million Natal exclusive or anything so this all or nothing approach makes no sense.

The logic in the first post just doesn't have much logic to it to me, it goes against what's already been happening for two years.

I'm assuming every Wand and Natal game will be like an eye toy type package and marketing, or just an added support to a game designed around a control pad.



Killergran on 05 June 2009

Aderoche said:
How on earth will a "fractured motion controler landscape" inhibit a "strong porting environment" when user input makes up such a tiny part of a games develpment costs?

The problem with this type of argument is that the way you interact with the game is the base for what type of game you can make. Any game that is based on buttons is easy to port to any other controller based on buttons. A game based on moving your body is easy to port to another control system that uses your body. But moving from body to buttons... not that easy. Take a look at NDS and iPhone. iPhone especially, has no buttons. This makes tons of types of games really, really awkward on iPhone.



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Avinash_Tyagi on 05 June 2009
jammy2211 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
jammy2211 said:
Companies have spent the last two years porting games between the PS2 / PSP and Wii, one with no motion controls at all to one with motion controls. Further companies are already porting Wii games with motion controls to PS3 / 360.

Why would these consoles getting motion controls suddenly make these ports unviable, if they already port freely regardless of control interface?


Wii is more similar to a control pad then NATAL and the Purple want, with its many buttons and nunchuk with analog stick, so porting between PS2 and PSP to Wii and back is not that difficult, NATAL espeically doesn't have any buttons or sticks so controls have to be wildly different, so much that the games will probably have little in common.

 

Also not many games get ported between the PS3/360 and the Wii, because the Wii's graphical capability is so much lower, most games have to be downgraded to be ported to the Wii or a totally different version has to be made, and the few games that are moved from the Wii to the PS3 and 360, will look very poor graphically on those consoles.

 

As a result it is both the wildly different control schemes, NATAL and the Purple Wand seem even more divorced from the gamepad then the Wiimote, and the difference in grpahical ability, that will make certain that ports betwen the three are limited at best

 You're missing the point though, companies can freely port regardless of controls already, and for some reason that is supposed to change? If a game is being designed in a way so that it can only play on one motion control then it'll be budgeted appropriate, no ones going to make a $20 million Natal exclusive or anything so this all or nothing approach makes no sense.

The logic in the first post just doesn't have much logic to it to me, it goes against what's already been happening for two years.

I'm assuming every Wand and Natal game will be like an eye toy type package and marketing, or just an added support to a game designed around a control pad.


I think its you who doesn't understand, yes its going to change, as I said the controls are about to become wildly different, you can't control a NATAL game like a Wii or a Gamepad game, it has no pointer ability, no sticks and no buttons.

Games on the 360 will cost around 20 million because of the need for graphics, ai , adverising, etc, add in the costs for building a wildly different control scheme and yeah you have over 20 million, this means that  game will not be made for those systems if it costs that much, they'll be made for the Wii and the Wii's successor, not the PS3 and 360 and their successors



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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marktheshark275 on 05 June 2009

As usual, another article by the awesome Malstrom. :)

Come on haters, don't force yourselves to read his words. If you hate him so much, why force yourselves to read his stuff?



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dib8rman on 05 June 2009

The only difference would be HD versus SD?



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Avinash_Tyagi on 05 June 2009

probably because they know he's right, but don't want to admit it



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

aderoche on 05 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
probably because they know he's right, but don't want to admit it


I know he is wrong and I am happy to admit that.



Avinash_Tyagi on 05 June 2009

You haven't shown how he's wrong



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)