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Forums - Microsoft - In some ways, Natal looks like playing "air guitar". IMO, will wear thin.

rover on 04 June 2009
NJ5 said:
rover said:


I'm sure that MS are calling it 'hands-free' to clearly differentiate it from other systems, not a Wii-style controller. It's likely to prove that unlike the Wii system, this is something that actually tracks you (Wii tennis works if you stand stock still and flick your wrist around.)

(...)

And how exactly would movement in a tennis game work with Natal? You would need something like a full-sized tennis court to run around in, or pretending to run while standing still.

Once you add peripherals with buttons or sticks, most of Natal's appeal is lost. It gets kind of pointless to track your whole body when you're using a controller at the same time. I guess there would still be some interesting possibilities, but it doesn't look very promising.

 


Tennis: these issues are, I'm sure, being worked out now.  I think the idea of locomotion by running in place would have been abandoned already.  The system tracks your entire body, so body lean, how far out an arm is reached, etc..., could handle the movement you're suggesting.  The Natal system is designed for a living room, so there'll clearly be some parameters inside of which developers/designers will work.

"Once you add a peripheral...the appeal is lost."  Can't agree there.  From what you're saying it sounds like you're thinking a standard controller - that's not what I imagine.  Of course a standard controller would be limiting to Natal's promise as you'd have both hands constantly clasped on it. 

But, perhaps a one-handed group of buttons or something like that where, in the case of a shooter, pressing A while "holding" an imaginary weapon shoots the primary ammo and pressing B shoots the secondary ammo, with the system auto-tracking your aim based on your body movements.  This sort of thing would also give the ability to quickly handle mulitple different items in your inventory via a D-pad style selection scheme.  Clearly, I'm not a game designer, but it's not too difficult once you break out of the assumptions of the past.

In any case, this is coming.  It will be here next year.  It will work on all 360s.  It will likely be included in all 360s moving forward.  One can use it or not, but that will depend on the games produced, and how willful one is ("I refuse to have fun!  It's not fun the way I think it should be!"). 



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dougsdad0629 on 04 June 2009
rover said:
NJ5 said:
rover said:


I'm sure that MS are calling it 'hands-free' to clearly differentiate it from other systems, not a Wii-style controller. It's likely to prove that unlike the Wii system, this is something that actually tracks you (Wii tennis works if you stand stock still and flick your wrist around.)

(...)

And how exactly would movement in a tennis game work with Natal? You would need something like a full-sized tennis court to run around in, or pretending to run while standing still.

Once you add peripherals with buttons or sticks, most of Natal's appeal is lost. It gets kind of pointless to track your whole body when you're using a controller at the same time. I guess there would still be some interesting possibilities, but it doesn't look very promising.

 


Tennis: these issues are, I'm sure, being worked out now.  I think the idea of locomotion by running in place would have been abandoned already.  The system tracks your entire body, so body lean, how far out an arm is reached, etc..., could handle the movement you're suggesting.  The Natal system is designed for a living room, so there'll clearly be some parameters inside of which developers/designers will work.

"Once you add a peripheral...the appeal is lost."  Can't agree there.  From what you're saying it sounds like you're thinking a standard controller - that's not what I imagine.  Of course a standard controller would be limiting to Natal's promise as you'd have both hands constantly clasped on it. 

But, perhaps a one-handed group of buttons or something like that where, in the case of a shooter, pressing A while "holding" an imaginary weapon shoots the primary ammo and pressing B shoots the secondary ammo, with the system auto-tracking your aim based on your body movements.  This sort of thing would also give the ability to quickly handle mulitple different items in your inventory via a D-pad style selection scheme.  Clearly, I'm not a game designer, but it's not too difficult once you break out of the assumptions of the past.

In any case, this is coming.  It will be here next year.  It will work on all 360s.  It will likely be included in all 360s moving forward.  One can use it or not, but that will depend on the games produced, and how willful one is ("I refuse to have fun!  It's not fun the way I think it should be!"). 

I really like your one-handed controller idea.  That sounds fun.  Motion can only convey so much.  Your example of primary vs. secondary fire and item management are good examples.  However, I highly doubt the unit will be included in all 360s.  That would add greatly to the cost and some people just won't want it.  I expect it might be part of its own separate, somewhat expensive bundle, but it certainly won't be included across the board.



Keep this in mind when reading what I type...

I've been gaming longer than many of you have been alive.

thx1139 on 04 June 2009
dougsdad0629 said:

I really like your one-handed controller idea.  That sounds fun.  Motion can only convey so much.  Your example of primary vs. secondary fire and item management are good examples.  However, I highly doubt the unit will be included in all 360s.  That would add greatly to the cost and some people just won't want it.  I expect it might be part of its own separate, somewhat expensive bundle, but it certainly won't be included across the board.


I dont think a game with gun controller with a trigger (button A) and another button will be a very expensive bundle.  After all MS sells Sceneit with 4 controllers for $40 and Lips with 2 microphones for $50.  So some FPS (Perfect Dark 2 is my guess) with a gun controller will be very doable at $60-$70.

They could also incorporate some interesting gestures.  Say your holding a gun and reach back over your shoulder to switch to your other rifle/heavy weapon or reach down to your side to reach your pistol.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

rover on 04 June 2009
dougsdad0629 said:
rover said:
NJ5 said:
rover said:


I'm sure that MS are calling it 'hands-free' to clearly differentiate it from other systems, not a Wii-style controller. It's likely to prove that unlike the Wii system, this is something that actually tracks you (Wii tennis works if you stand stock still and flick your wrist around.)

(...)

And how exactly would movement in a tennis game work with Natal? You would need something like a full-sized tennis court to run around in, or pretending to run while standing still.

Once you add peripherals with buttons or sticks, most of Natal's appeal is lost. It gets kind of pointless to track your whole body when you're using a controller at the same time. I guess there would still be some interesting possibilities, but it doesn't look very promising.

 


Tennis: these issues are, I'm sure, being worked out now.  I think the idea of locomotion by running in place would have been abandoned already.  The system tracks your entire body, so body lean, how far out an arm is reached, etc..., could handle the movement you're suggesting.  The Natal system is designed for a living room, so there'll clearly be some parameters inside of which developers/designers will work.

"Once you add a peripheral...the appeal is lost."  Can't agree there.  From what you're saying it sounds like you're thinking a standard controller - that's not what I imagine.  Of course a standard controller would be limiting to Natal's promise as you'd have both hands constantly clasped on it. 

But, perhaps a one-handed group of buttons or something like that where, in the case of a shooter, pressing A while "holding" an imaginary weapon shoots the primary ammo and pressing B shoots the secondary ammo, with the system auto-tracking your aim based on your body movements.  This sort of thing would also give the ability to quickly handle mulitple different items in your inventory via a D-pad style selection scheme.  Clearly, I'm not a game designer, but it's not too difficult once you break out of the assumptions of the past.

In any case, this is coming.  It will be here next year.  It will work on all 360s.  It will likely be included in all 360s moving forward.  One can use it or not, but that will depend on the games produced, and how willful one is ("I refuse to have fun!  It's not fun the way I think it should be!"). 

I really like your one-handed controller idea.  That sounds fun.  Motion can only convey so much.  Your example of primary vs. secondary fire and item management are good examples.  However, I highly doubt the unit will be included in all 360s.  That would add greatly to the cost and some people just won't want it.  I expect it might be part of its own separate, somewhat expensive bundle, but it certainly won't be included across the board.

:)

Imagine, if you will, a world in which $199 for a console is acceptable.  Positing that, imagine the likelihood that the cost of production of a 360 continues to drop to where MS *could* sell the arcade for $130-$150.  Lastly, imagine the case where this device (still more than a year from ship) could be manufactured and included for between $50-$70.

Conceivably, with existing manufacturing cost decreases, MS *could* include the Natal with new systems and keep the price at $199.

Depends on MS' plans - do they want this to be something so integral to the Xbox 360 experience that they subsidize it like crazy?  Or do they plan on investing tons of money into it and have it just be an option.

Based on the work they've shown at E3 which includes, in addition to games, all the dashboard integration, I'd be shocked if they weren't looking at this as a highly strategic piece of their platform. 

Presuming MS wants broadening into the casual markets, they can't have a "first get this, then add this, ...and finally install this. Right, now connect this to that, load this other thing and put in this code" user experience - it has to be "here, get this one thing and you have this awesome new experience out of the box". These are casuals we're talking about after all.

My bet: they will make it too attractive to pass up for existing users, and bundled for new ones.