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Forums - Microsoft - Should we welcome Xbox 360 to computer gaming?

theRepublic said:

You make it sound so simple to run older games on operating systems they were never designed for, but that just isn't the case.  I own C&C Red Alert for Windows 95.  It ran great on my old Windows 95 machine.  I tried putting it on my new Windows XP machine a few years ago.  Getting it to run at all was a pain, and when I did, it didn't run quite right.  It had issues it never did on the older machine.  Then it started crashing at the same place over and over again.  It became impossible to play the game after the 5th mission or so.

All you have to do is right click - properties - compatibility - play in windows 95 mode.



It's really that simple.

 

If you want to go older, download Dosbox.  I recently got it and dusted off some old DOS games, it's fantastic .

 

And talk about using a PC being difficult... back in those days you had to worry about IRQ's, DMA's, and boot disks because many games were limited to using 640kb of conventional RAM lol



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max power said:
theRepublic said:
 

You make it sound so simple to run older games on operating systems they were never designed for, but that just isn't the case.  I own C&C Red Alert for Windows 95.  It ran great on my old Windows 95 machine.  I tried putting it on my new Windows XP machine a few years ago.  Getting it to run at all was a pain, and when I did, it didn't run quite right.  It had issues it never did on the older machine.  Then it started crashing at the same place over and over again.  It became impossible to play the game after the 5th mission or so.

All you have to do is right click - properties - compatibility - play in windows 95 mode.



It's really that simple.

 

If you want to go older, download Dosbox.  I recently got it and dusted off some old DOS games, it's fantastic .

 

And talk about using a PC being difficult... back in those days you had to worry about IRQ's, DMA's, and boot disks because many games were limited to using 640kb of conventional RAM lol

That is what I did.  Got tons of problems.  Had to mess with it some more.  Got it working.  Finally got the problems as listed above.  Gave up.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

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CaseyDDR said:
mysticD said:
Khuutra said:
shio said:
Khuutra said:
PCs are generally defined by moddability, aren't they? The Xbox 360 is too closed in terms of hardware and software to be considered a PC.

PCs weren't always "defined" by moddability though. It was only in the mid 90's that modding of PCs and games took flight. Anyway, it is possible to modify your Xbox 360, from simple aesthetics to switching HDD's, to more legally-strained modding and such.

Still a closed system. I could keep a PC for twenty years and play all those games the entire time if I kept the parts updated. That's not possible with the Xbox. I'm always going to have to buy the new one.

I have couple box full of PC games in my garage that doesn't run on my current system anymore.  And seriously keeping a tower size PC around from each generation just to play some of the game??   Let said 5 years from now when the next box come out, I probably can still pick up 360 for cheap and most likely the new system will be compatible.   Heck, my Dreamcast still work well when I hook it up last week.  I can't even play game just from few years ago on my current PC without downloading patch or mod.

There are so many ppl to quote ignorance but you won the pile with this response. Do you NOT know how to run an older program? Do you not know what the command prompt is? 


As for Virus Protection on a Windows based system, I've NEVER gotten a virus in the 10+ years I can remember building them myself and running myself. Know why? I don't use IE. Virus scanners and Spyware removers are scams in themselves, and are only what they are advertising to stop. You mention cheap computers then go to Macs... Macs are more vunerable than Windows by A LOT. Also, Linux is as cheap as it gets considering ITS FREE. Considering you guys are xbot fans, you'd think you'd at least know a bit about a PC being M$ fanboys. 

LOL, really? you have to resort to name calling.  Please argue like a grown up if you want to have a debate.  Actually, why don't you just read your answer that you gave me.  In order to play the old game I have to download dos box, adjust my compatability mode (and hope it work).  I am not an idiot, I probably used computer before you were born.  The point is it's not that simple.  I can't just put in my disk and play, worst yet game I recently bought like Dawn of War 2 doesn't even work.  Patch after patch and the game still crash.  The worst part, i can't even trade it or sell it because of the shitty DRM since now it tie with frikcking Steam account.  

And your comment about virus protection sound like one of those guy that refuse to wear a comdom and doesn't think he can catch any STD because he know what he's doing.  

I love PC as much as the next guy, but sorry my times are lmited and don't want to fuzz around for hours just to play a game or hook up with a friend or family for on-line games.



LOL

@OP

Can I sit down on my couch to watch my movies? Can I sit down on my couch and play my games?
Can I play Halo 3 without a 360? Can I play Forza 3 without my 360? Or even Crackdown 2 or ODST? Halo Reach? Ninja Gaiden 2? Ninja Blade? Soul Calibur 4? Lost Odyssey?

Etc etc. I choose all of the above over £50 PC gaming.



I was waiting for the part of your original post that was a bad thing. Being a former pc gamer that made the switch to consoles I love that the 360 is giving me some of the luxuries I used to enjoy from my pc. But you attack these services with disgust and then boot up your computer and use these very services. Sure the pc Provides these services with a higher level of detail but should we criticize ms for offering them to console users.

Your post is offensive to every person that chose to enjoy consoles for their gaming needs and now are being rewarded for their choice.



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selnor said:
LOL

@OP

Can I sit down on my couch to watch my movies? Can I sit down on my couch and play my games?
Can I play Halo 3 without a 360? Can I play Forza 3 without my 360? Or even Crackdown 2 or ODST? Halo Reach? Ninja Gaiden 2? Ninja Blade? Soul Calibur 4? Lost Odyssey?

Etc etc. I choose all of the above over £50 PC gaming.

Well, you certainly can hook up a computer to a TV.  Even play with a controller, too.

And can you play Portal Prelude?  Crysis?  Starcraft 2?  Every platform has its exclusives.  And frankly, most PC gamers are less than impressed by the 3 Halo's you mentioned, because we've played, you know, GOOD first person shooters.  :-o

 

PC > Console for FPS and RTS, mostly due to the control scheme (and history).  I prefer console for most everything else, though.



Gnizmo said:

nightsurge said:

I likely know far more about what I am talking about on this subject than nearly anyone else here.

Also, the HD 3850 is just barely below the 9600GT.  Sure it can output 1080p video.  Almost any discrete graphics card can do that.  But there is no way your HD 3850 can play games at 1920x1080 resolution on high settings.  That is what I am talking about here.

If for one second you could understand what I am talking about, maybe you could present a valid argument.

Also, I would love to see someone provide me some proof/info on an LCD TV upscaling a PC image (say the PC image is 1280x720 or so).  Most LCD TV's don't even do upscaling themselves, and when they do it is usually crap.  It is best to let the actual device do the upscaling (the media player or console in this case).

 Again I have to say I don't know where you are getting your information, but it is wrong. I just finished playing some Fallout 3 on ultra high with the resolution slightly below 1080p (1680X1050 which is the highest my monitor supports). I have no doubt if I were to hook it up to a monitor capable of outputting that high that it would keep chugging right along as there are no hints of a slow down currently. This is all while also outputting to a nearby TV so I can watch my favorite downloded shows and play games at the same time. I am nto trying to attack you here so there really isn't any need for being defensive. PCs have long been able to outperform the PS360 while costing around the same.

I looked up what you said, and it does appear that the HD 3850 just barely pulls off with playable fram rates provided no AA or AF is enabled.  29 FPS average and 20 minimum.

Still can't match the performance on 1080p, though

And I am still waiting on someone to find me a retail PC for $500 that has a good enough setup for gaming equal to 360/PS3 levels.



max power said:
selnor said:
LOL

@OP

Can I sit down on my couch to watch my movies? Can I sit down on my couch and play my games?
Can I play Halo 3 without a 360? Can I play Forza 3 without my 360? Or even Crackdown 2 or ODST? Halo Reach? Ninja Gaiden 2? Ninja Blade? Soul Calibur 4? Lost Odyssey?

Etc etc. I choose all of the above over £50 PC gaming.

Well, you certainly can hook up a computer to a TV.  Even play with a controller, too.

And can you play Portal Prelude?  Crysis?  Starcraft 2?  Every platform has its exclusives.  And frankly, most PC gamers are less than impressed by the 3 Halo's you mentioned, because we've played, you know, GOOD first person shooters.  :-o

 

PC > Console for FPS and RTS, mostly due to the control scheme (and history).  I prefer console for most everything else, though.

Don't you think it looks wierd for a PC to be in your living room? i think it's too big,troublesome & wierd to be placed in a living room.



nightsurge said:

I looked up what you said, and it does appear that the HD 3850 just barely pulls off with playable fram rates provided no AA or AF is enabled.  29 FPS average and 20 minimum.

Still can't match the performance on 1080p, though

And I am still waiting on someone to find me a retail PC for $500 that has a good enough setup for gaming equal to 360/PS3 levels.

This is getting tiresome. I have the game set for 4X AA and 15X AF. The resokution is slightly off of 1080P, but it runs a second monitor simulataneously that is 1024X768. I am reasonable certain that will tax my computer far more than a simple bump to 1080p will. I am looking for a way to get the exact FPS for you so I can give you the right numbers. You are simply wrong.

 My set-up isn't retail, but without the monitor it would have been below $500 slightly. This was a year ago so it would be a bit cheaper now to build an identical system. I suppose the reason no one takes you up on your challenge though is you are just making up facts as you go along. You can claim to know more all you want, but I have first hand experience with this rig that says you are talking out your ass.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

nightsurge said:
Gnizmo said:

nightsurge said:

I likely know far more about what I am talking about on this subject than nearly anyone else here.

Also, the HD 3850 is just barely below the 9600GT.  Sure it can output 1080p video.  Almost any discrete graphics card can do that.  But there is no way your HD 3850 can play games at 1920x1080 resolution on high settings.  That is what I am talking about here.

If for one second you could understand what I am talking about, maybe you could present a valid argument.

Also, I would love to see someone provide me some proof/info on an LCD TV upscaling a PC image (say the PC image is 1280x720 or so).  Most LCD TV's don't even do upscaling themselves, and when they do it is usually crap.  It is best to let the actual device do the upscaling (the media player or console in this case).

 Again I have to say I don't know where you are getting your information, but it is wrong. I just finished playing some Fallout 3 on ultra high with the resolution slightly below 1080p (1680X1050 which is the highest my monitor supports). I have no doubt if I were to hook it up to a monitor capable of outputting that high that it would keep chugging right along as there are no hints of a slow down currently. This is all while also outputting to a nearby TV so I can watch my favorite downloded shows and play games at the same time. I am nto trying to attack you here so there really isn't any need for being defensive. PCs have long been able to outperform the PS360 while costing around the same.

I looked up what you said, and it does appear that the HD 3850 just barely pulls off with playable fram rates provided no AA or AF is enabled.  29 FPS average and 20 minimum.

Still can't match the performance on 1080p, though

And I am still waiting on someone to find me a retail PC for $500 that has a good enough setup for gaming equal to 360/PS3 levels.

You do realise that even if the graphics on PS/360 is output to 1080P, that the actual graphics settings would not be as good as the PC's 'High' in most games. I believe someone already mentioned earlier that the lowest graphics settings on GTAIV PC were the equivalent of the graphics output on the consoles. Even at lower resolutions on PC the game can still look better then a console version playing at 1080P as PC users can tinker up the effects etc. until we get the optimal settings.

That's the true advantage of consoles, it's already optimised for the console hardware. PC gamers need to tinker until we can get an optimal performance, but the performance nearly always exceeds the console equivalent, even at $600. I bought/built my PC (including monitor) for just over £600 about the time the 360 came out (£350). It manages to beat or at very least equal the consoles on graphics, and usually if it's equal to the console version then it's ported from the console version with no extra optimisation (e.g. Bioshock).

If you count that new games are usually £10 cheaper, no Live costs and cheaper peripherals (larger HDD etc.) then 360 is still cheaper, but not by much. By the end of the gen, if you were to add up the costs, they'd probably be about equal.