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Forums - General - US-Israel relations hit low after Jewish state rejects White House demand

Slimebeast on 29 May 2009
Dodece said:
@Zlejedi

Israel is not a buffer. Israel is the cause. These terrorists exist in response to the existence of Israel. These terrorists justify their actions, because of Israel. They justify their actions against the United States, because of the countries support of Israel. Beyond that they have no real grief with the United States. Which had no territorial ambitions or acquisitions in the area. In other words the United States didn't do shit to the Arabs other then support Israel.

The support of the United States for Israel not only creates cause, but swells the ranks. Ideally the United States should abandon Israel utterly, and the vast majority of terrorist aligned against the United States would either abandon the quest, or find themselves dwindling.

Honestly there is nothing to be gained from a continued relationship. Israel is no longer the only democracy in the region. They provide no strategic value, of have any valuable resources. In fact by abandoning Israel the United States could get favorable trade concessions, and get valuable diplomatic currency within the Arab and Muslim world.

Israel should be thankful that at least the United States is broaching peace. This should be a good wake up call for Israel. Get your shit together and get it done. They have screwed around long enough. Get to the table hammer out a lasting peace, and while not everyone will be happy at least it will be a first step in quelling resentment.

Everyone is tired of this, and it does absolutely no good for anyone. At least with a Palestinian state the Arab world will have some closure, and the Palestinians the real victims in all of this can actually make something of themselves. Other then suicide bombers.


That's why America is great, they would gain much more if they supported the oil rich Arab nations, but since it's morally right to defend Israel, they choose that path.

And you are naive. Did you forget that Ariel Sharon, a hard-linder, gave up Gaza, which back-fired soon when Hamas took control of it by kicking out Fatah out of Gaza and then start firing rockets on Israel.

What kind of message did it send to Israel? That if you give the Arabs the lil finger, they'll just try to take your arm. This is all the Arabs fault that peace talks are freezed and as a consequence the Israeli people voted a hard-liners into it's government.

Israel showed good will and sincerity by giving up Gaza but gained absolutely nothing.
(except more time to snatch Jerusalem, luckily. But Jerusalem belongs to Israel)



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fmc83 on 29 May 2009
outlawauron said:
Zlejedi said:
outlawauron said:
Killzowned said:
Glad to see that Obama won't just be a Jewish plaything like Bush was.

What? Bush was a Jewish plaything? I wonder what world I live in sometimes......

You have to remember that in Europe media always had left wing tendencies so it's normal that people say such things when it is shown in tv each day how isreal bombed kindergarden or how many people died when Hellfire missile hit Hamas leader car/house. Now I'm exaggerating a bit but it's not Israel who has sympthy of press and tv in EU.

I imagine most over there want to erase Israel off the map.

 

Actually our media is not biased, but shows mostly both sides of the news. If you call that left-wing I must question your understanding of democracy.

You bomb a house in a urban-settled area like the Gaza strip - well there'll be innocent's blood spilled. In Germany support of Israel is a natural thing, but that doesn't mean, that you can't show the problems of the other side as well. But if you want to stick to black and white, then stay uneducated.

 



http://nintendo-geheimtipps.blogspot.com

Slimebeast on 29 May 2009
fmc83 said:
outlawauron said:
Zlejedi said:
outlawauron said:
Killzowned said:
Glad to see that Obama won't just be a Jewish plaything like Bush was.

What? Bush was a Jewish plaything? I wonder what world I live in sometimes......

You have to remember that in Europe media always had left wing tendencies so it's normal that people say such things when it is shown in tv each day how isreal bombed kindergarden or how many people died when Hellfire missile hit Hamas leader car/house. Now I'm exaggerating a bit but it's not Israel who has sympthy of press and tv in EU.

I imagine most over there want to erase Israel off the map.

 

Actually our media is not biased, but shows mostly both sides of the news. If you call that left-wing I must question your understanding of democracy.

You bomb a house in a urban-settled area like the Gaza strip - well there'll be innocent's blood spilled. In Germany support of Israel is a natural thing, but that doesn't mean, that you can't show the problems of the other side as well. But if you want to stick to black and white, then stay uneducated.

 

lol if you think German media represents Europe in this case. Germany is tied up by bad consious because of WWII and it's very sensitive there to portray Jews or Israel in a negative way.

But the rest of Europeean media is indeed mostly left-wing, pro-Palestinian and very Israel-chritical.

Euro media don't give a shit if 100 people got slaughtered in Sudan, Pakistan or Somalia but when a Palestinian kid got his knee wounded by an Israeli rubber bulllet it's shown on the 8 o'clock news.

 



fmc83 on 29 May 2009
Slimebeast said:
fmc83 said:

 

Actually our media is not biased, but shows mostly both sides of the news. If you call that left-wing I must question your understanding of democracy.

You bomb a house in a urban-settled area like the Gaza strip - well there'll be innocent's blood spilled. In Germany support of Israel is a natural thing, but that doesn't mean, that you can't show the problems of the other side as well. But if you want to stick to black and white, then stay uneducated.

 

lol if you think German media represents Europe in this case. Germany is tied up by bad consious because of WWII and it's very sensitive there to portray Jews or Israel in a negative way.

But the rest of Europeean media is indeed mostly left-wing, pro-Palestinian and very Israel-chritical.

Euro media don't give a shit if 100 people got slaughtered in Sudan, Pakistan or Somalia but when a Palestinian kid got his knee wounded by an Israeli rubber bulllet it's shown on the 8 o'clock news.

 

 

Well I can only speak for France, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Germany which adds up to 178 Million people then. And yeah we get news at least once every week about one of your selected three countries. But I'm always willing to learn more about my wrongs.



http://nintendo-geheimtipps.blogspot.com

Slimebeast on 29 May 2009
fmc83 said:
Slimebeast said:
fmc83 said:
 

 

Actually our media is not biased, but shows mostly both sides of the news. If you call that left-wing I must question your understanding of democracy.

You bomb a house in a urban-settled area like the Gaza strip - well there'll be innocent's blood spilled. In Germany support of Israel is a natural thing, but that doesn't mean, that you can't show the problems of the other side as well. But if you want to stick to black and white, then stay uneducated.

 

lol if you think German media represents Europe in this case. Germany is tied up by bad consious because of WWII and it's very sensitive there to portray Jews or Israel in a negative way.

But the rest of Europeean media is indeed mostly left-wing, pro-Palestinian and very Israel-chritical.

Euro media don't give a shit if 100 people got slaughtered in Sudan, Pakistan or Somalia but when a Palestinian kid got his knee wounded by an Israeli rubber bulllet it's shown on the 8 o'clock news.

 

 

Well I can only speak for France, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Germany which adds up to 178 Million people then. And yeah we get news at least once every week about one of your selected three countries. But I'm always willing to learn more about my wrongs.


Well you're a socialist and probably of immigrant origin, so of course in your eyes the media is pro-Israel.

But either way, you started to talk about Germany as 'us in Europe' about Israel in media, and that was pretty laughable. Everyone knows Hitler was from Germany u know.



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fmc83 on 29 May 2009

 

Wait, I specify my argument with other countries I know, that they've got the same type of balanced media. Then you call me a socialist and an immigrant?

 

No worries, I'm German as German can be, with basically one of my grand-grand-parents not being German or Austrian. Just happens that I speak French quite well and Dutch is not too hard to understand, when I visit a friend over there. Hope you ever heard about EuroNews which is broadcasted in every language and shows this kind of news as well

 

The socialist argument is ridiculous from an European. I would call me a right-wing social democrat which would be quite equal to the Democrats in the States and probably the conservatives you've got in Sweden.

 

So instead of implying what I might be, you would have done better to point out where you think, that the media is too "left-wing" and give proper examples of that. Then you still lack of an explanation, why it's necessarily "left-wingish" to criticize Israel for their wrongs.

 

 



http://nintendo-geheimtipps.blogspot.com

superchunk on 29 May 2009
Slimebeast said:


That's why America is great, they would gain much more if they supported the oil rich Arab nations, but since it's morally right to defend Israel, they choose that path.

And you are naive. Did you forget that Ariel Sharon, a hard-linder, gave up Gaza, which back-fired soon when Hamas took control of it by kicking out Fatah out of Gaza and then start firing rockets on Israel.

What kind of message did it send to Israel? That if you give the Arabs the lil finger, they'll just try to take your arm. This is all the Arabs fault that peace talks are freezed and as a consequence the Israeli people voted a hard-liners into it's government.

Israel showed good will and sincerity by giving up Gaza but gained absolutely nothing.
(except more time to snatch Jerusalem, luckily. But Jerusalem belongs to Israel)

lol. US supports Israel for political reasons. If there were not Israeli lobby (AIPAC) and no cold war then there would never had been a biased pro-Israel US.

Gaza backfired because it was not put through in a cooperative way, it was a one-sided retreat style move. If Sharon had left Gaza in a more cooperative way as part of the peace process then it would have not given Hamas the fuel it received. If Sharon would have met with Abbas and used Gaza as a proof of concept to Israel working with the more liberal PA movement, then things would have turned out different.

Finally, E. Jerusalem belongs to its majority, Arabs (Christian and Muslim). The same majority that has been living there for hundreds of thousands of years.



outlawauron on 29 May 2009
fmc83 said:
outlawauron said:
Zlejedi said:
outlawauron said:
Killzowned said:
Glad to see that Obama won't just be a Jewish plaything like Bush was.

What? Bush was a Jewish plaything? I wonder what world I live in sometimes......

You have to remember that in Europe media always had left wing tendencies so it's normal that people say such things when it is shown in tv each day how isreal bombed kindergarden or how many people died when Hellfire missile hit Hamas leader car/house. Now I'm exaggerating a bit but it's not Israel who has sympthy of press and tv in EU.

I imagine most over there want to erase Israel off the map.

 Actually our media is not biased, but shows mostly both sides of the news. If you call that left-wing I must question your understanding of democracy.

You bomb a house in a urban-settled area like the Gaza strip - well there'll be innocent's blood spilled. In Germany support of Israel is a natural thing, but that doesn't mean, that you can't show the problems of the other side as well. But if you want to stick to black and white, then stay uneducated.

We have the same thing in the US. We have major news stations that hate Israel.

I call anything left wing, etc. Just made a remark.



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fmc83 on 29 May 2009
outlawauron said:
fmc83 said:
outlawauron said:
Zlejedi said:
outlawauron said:
Killzowned said:
Glad to see that Obama won't just be a Jewish plaything like Bush was.

What? Bush was a Jewish plaything? I wonder what world I live in sometimes......

You have to remember that in Europe media always had left wing tendencies so it's normal that people say such things when it is shown in tv each day how isreal bombed kindergarden or how many people died when Hellfire missile hit Hamas leader car/house. Now I'm exaggerating a bit but it's not Israel who has sympthy of press and tv in EU.

I imagine most over there want to erase Israel off the map.

Actually our media is not biased, but shows mostly both sides of the news. If you call that left-wing I must question your understanding of democracy.

You bomb a house in a urban-settled area like the Gaza strip - well there'll be innocent's blood spilled. In Germany support of Israel is a natural thing, but that doesn't mean, that you can't show the problems of the other side as well. But if you want to stick to black and white, then stay uneducated.

We have the same thing in the US. We have major news stations that hate Israel.

I call anything left wing, etc. Just made a remark.

 

WTF? There are no news stations who hate any country in most of Europe. Otherwise they won't be NEWS-stations. I hope for yourself, that you're just trolling atm. Otherwise it's the classic facepalm for you.



http://nintendo-geheimtipps.blogspot.com

halogamer1989 on 29 May 2009

G-d bless Bibi. Israel does not have to take demands from the U.S., esp. since they have to deal with Iran now. Basically Obama said that Bibi (a conservative) has to pull out and stop all settlements in order for help with Iran. That is easier said than done in a nation with 302 people per sq km not to mention is it political suicide if he wants to remain PM.