By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales - Why the PS3 will not last long, let alone 10 years.

I think that since the PS3 is such an advanced machine they will skip an entire generation and make huge profits from the PS3. I mean c'mon, the next Wii will probably have PS3 graphics so why make another Sony console. The 360 can upgrade visuals but the lack of Blu-Ray BC will make consumers purchase a less expensive PS3 slim over the most expensive console which will likely be the Xbox 720...... It all falls on Microsoft's next console. If it is significantly superior to PS3 then Sony may have to announce a new console as well. If it is slightly superior then I think Sony may just skip the next generation and compete with its PS3 slim.



Around the Network
Smashchu2 said:

Before I begin, I want to mention this thread will recive a lot of backlash, and that is to be expected. I am saying to buyers that your product will become useless, essentually. However, I have heard many people say the exact opposite of what I'm saying (that the PS3 will last a long time). I can argue or disagree with them, but it doesn't bring the same effect. All I ask is from those who post to please not flame and to try and think logically about what your saying. I don't mind criticism. Just please don't say "OMG, you lose ALL crediability for X." That's just stupid.

 

I was talking to a friend, and I said the PS3 wouldn't last much longer. He said "Nu uh. Sony said it will have a 10 year life span." So will it last for 10 years? NO.

When Sony claimed the system would last for 10 years, they meant that the system was future proof. Until the Wii came out, the trend in the industry was to make system bigger and better. Sony took it one step further and made a system with such good technology that it would never be obsolete, well, at least for 10 years. Well, there was one flaw with their theory. Video games are in the content business, not the technolgogy business. This means content, not technology, sells systems.  (Need an example? Look at the Wii. It is the best selling system an it is not up to snuff with the HD twins. The only system that was the strongest and did better then the current competators was the SNES). So what does this mean reader? It means, software, not hardware, sells systems. The Wii is successful becuase Nintendo had Wii Sports. The PS3 is a big flop becuase it doesn't have a game like Wii Sports that customers want to buy. Systems are sold when people have a game they want to play. Packing Wii Sports with the Wii was genius in that it cuts the middle man and put the must have game with the system, already packed. The Wii, in this respect, gets a lot more value right from the box then the other two systems as the consumers gets a game along with the price.

So what does this have to do with longevity? Game consoles are based on momentum. When a system has a lot of content people want, it sells for a long time. The best part is that if a system has some content that is must have, then resources will all be shift to that system, increasing the amount of content on that system. It works in reverse too. If a system has no content that is in high demand (or has too little content in general), then resources will move away from the system. Here's an example. The PS2 had lots and lots of software. There was a lot of crap too, but becuase it had a large library, the system appealed to more people. Since it had so much content, developers put most of their resources into the PS2. Take the Gamecube. Third parties developed for it when it first came out, but after a while, development slowed. By 2005/2006, Nintendo was the only one making games for the system save for a bone here and there. Some may try to say a small library with better games is better. Take the N64. Nintendo tried to make a dream team of developers, so they only let certain developers develop for the system. In the end, most of the moved to Sony's system. The N64 had lot of good software, yet the PS1 had more. In the industry now, what is happening is that content is moving towards the Wii as it is shifting away from the PS3 and XBox 360, meaning that, over time, people will get bored with the two systems. Sales will slow for both hardware and software. If this happens (and it will), then the manufacture must make a new system if they wish to stay competative in the industry. "Can't they just try to make content for the system people want" No. Once this happens, it's hard to recouperate. Third parties will move enough resources away that the new game that people might want is either ignored or is drowned out by the content on the system will all the conent (which is right now the Wii). The same was never said for the Gamecube, and it didn't happen. Nintendo had lots of good Gamecube software, but it never recovered. It was cheaper then the PS2, and people still bought the PS2 overe the Gamecube.

Here is the kicker: turns out Sony loses money on every PS3 sold. As of right now, Sony loses $40 on ever console sold (this comes from another thread here on VGchartz). So, the system is losing the company billions. If you haven't kept track, the system is eating profits from the other two systems before it. Gasp. If you didn't know, the system uses what is dubbed the "razor and blades" modle. Their goal is to sell the system at a cost at first and make the money up as the price of manufacturing goes down and hope to make it back on games sold on the system. Or, you could be like Nintendo, sell the system for profit, and "print money." This strategy worked when they were in first because they would make some money anyway. Now, the brand is having trouble staying afloot and turning a profit. Let's put this all together.

 

http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/Smashchu/?action=view¤t=PS3_sales.gif

 

If you look at the sales of the PS3 over time, you'll see that the sales are usually lower in 2008 than 2007. Now, while the change isn't great, it does show that the system is stagnant. Now, I did US only for Novermber and December as it was the only place to have the system for those three years at that time. April was the only months where 2009 was higher then 2009. The system is either declining, or will decline soon, meaning consumers are not as insterested in the PS3 as a whole. The consumer isn't gaining more interst in the PS3, but they are losing it. As such, developers are moving resources to other consoles. If you haven't noticed, developers are putting more and more effort in the Wii. They are showing more Wii games off and are trying new things on the system. The reason they do this is because of the larger install base. They hope that by releasing a game on a system more people will own, that more people will purchase the game on that console then the weaker selling console. As time goes on, they will move more and more. When third party games start to do really well (which may happen with Moster Hunter and Dragon Quest), then developers will make a massive push to the Wii. The movement happening now with keep Wii sales going as more and more content becomes available on the system; thus, they never get bored (at least not for a while). With content lessing on the PS3, people will soon put it away or sell it.

 

Here is why manufacturers release new consoles. New consoles mean new content, or the prospect of new content. It is benifitial to do this as it gets consumers excited and publishers want to make new content on the console in the prospect it will do well. (aside: publishers, at the begining of a console cycle will support the system they expect to do the best, or that will benefit them the most. This is how it has been recently, but it may not have been this way in the days of the SNES). Manufacturers make new consoles to stay competative in the business. However, if they do not release one soon enough, people may forget about the brand, and will probably leave it behind. There is no data to support this, but let me convince you with a senario.  Let's say Sony does not release a new console. The sales of the PS3 it's software are down. More and more developers are moving to the Wii. What do you do? If you sit and wait, nothing will happen. You're essentually in limbo. If you release a new console, you might get consumers excited. One thing is for sure, they are not excited. Now, if a manufacture with similar values as your console release one, they will take all your users. Developers who make games with similar values will flock to the new system. If you do not respond soon, the new console will already have the sales and support that your system can compete. Your console would be a risk to publsihers and will lack the content consumers want. Unless you have a strong first party, you will not be able to creep into the market (aside: I know many will hate that I say this, but Sony simply does not havge the first party to do this and neither does Microaoft. Their developers don't have the talent and most games they make are eclipsed by the offerings from third parties. Sony is still very relient on third parties for content. Remember, Metal Gear Solid 4 was the only game to really move PS3s, and it was a third party game).

 

So, Sony has to react now. Their system is losing steam and may decline sharply in 2010. Since Sony is relient on third patries for software, they may be in hot water if Nintendo wins the third parties over (this was Microsoft's plan in stealing exclusives). They may have to start planning for a console very soon. Undoubtly, Microsoft is poising problems for Sony. Microsoft is only concerned with destroying Sony. The 360 has tried at every turn to one up Sony. Malstrom also wrote a peice explaining the new motion control from Microsoft was aimed at the Eyetoy, not the Wii Remote. Microsoft is not concerned with profits but with stoping Sony. This means they will lose billions to stop the Playstation brand. What could they do? Why, release a new console of course. If they release a new one, Sony will have to retaliate or lose publishers and consumers with the same values (yes, Microsoft and Sony are competing on similar values in the videogame market). Microsoft has been a thorn in Sony's side since the begining of this console cycle. Microsoft has done a good job of stealing consumers and content from Sony.

 

Either way you slice it, the PS3 is hurting. Hurting consoles do not stay on the market for long. Hurting consoles do not last 10 years. All the systems that had long life spans were healthy, had a lot of content, and sold well during this cycle. Accordingly, Nintendo will be the one who sticks around while Sony and Microsoft scramble for a new system. If you want my prediction, I expect we will see a new console by E3 2010. Heck, they may very well talk about on at this E3. So, expect the PS3 to not last very long.

Okay so you are saying that the PS3 will only last 3 and 1/2 years on the market?  Dude for real you need to re-think your prediction.  In the first paragraph you said think logically about what your saying.  Well it seems like you didn't take your own advice.  I'm not trying to talk trash or anything, but seriously why would sony bring out a new system next summer when all of there big games are coming out at the same time for the PS3. 



damn that ps3s cell technology that is going to take over the world. its first line of business was global economical crash. it accomplished its objective in a year and a half. i hate to see step 2.



Smashchu2 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
nightsurge said:

Probably a combination of:

Currency conversions

Economy

Sony Electronics have decreased in perceived value due to economy (same TV as others for $400 more = no Sony purchase)

PS3 selling at a loss

R&D


I agree but only one of those falls on the ps3.

No, all or most of them cause it. It's simple logic.

The green historian will claim WW1 started due to the assaination of archduke Ferdinan. The experienced one will say the war started from rivalies steaming from colonialism and power struggle as well as secret treadies coming out of the rivalries.

Case in point: One answer is never the right answer.

I can't make much sense of this post. A concurrency of causes brings a financial loss to Sony. Max rightly points out that the PS3 hardware cost is only one of them.

Your answer is

a) that he is wrong, that all of them concurred. Except that nobody doubted or denied that.

b) a weird similitude with occasional causes vs deep causes in an historical event, that goes nowhere because it's not clear which causes you think are structural and which ones are occasional. Is Sony structurally in trouble because its premium market is shrinking in general electronics? Is it structurally in trouble because it spends too much in R&D? Or are these occasional?

All things said, you sort of admitted that there are several reasons for Sony's losses, and yet your stance is that shareholders somehow will take a financially damaging road  - cutting the PS3 life, thus losing the profit that comes from it overall thanks to software - because, what, they are not as good as you at analyzing their company's financial situation?

Please do explain.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

the worst case scenario would be for the PS3 to do so bad that Walmart drops it... if the 360 can reach 20 million in the US before the PS3 can reach 10 you'll see Walmart take some action. It'll be the Saturn all over again... they'll crush Sony's space to 2 cabinets... it's almost there right now and half or even third their orders for the console. They'll push the Wii and 360 and effectively kill off the PS3 in the largest market in the world. Personally I don't think that would happen, but that is the most likely worst case scenario



Around the Network
WereKitten said:
Smashchu2 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
nightsurge said:

Probably a combination of:

Currency conversions

Economy

Sony Electronics have decreased in perceived value due to economy (same TV as others for $400 more = no Sony purchase)

PS3 selling at a loss

R&D


I agree but only one of those falls on the ps3.

No, all or most of them cause it. It's simple logic.

The green historian will claim WW1 started due to the assaination of archduke Ferdinan. The experienced one will say the war started from rivalies steaming from colonialism and power struggle as well as secret treadies coming out of the rivalries.

Case in point: One answer is never the right answer.

I can't make much sense of this post. A concurrency of causes brings a financial loss to Sony. Max rightly points out that the PS3 hardware cost is only one of them.

Your answer is

a) that he is wrong, that all of them concurred. Except that nobody doubted or denied that.

b) a weird similitude with occasional causes vs deep causes in an historical event, that goes nowhere because it's not clear which causes you think are structural and which ones are occasional. Is Sony structurally in trouble because its premium market is shrinking in general electronics? Is it structurally in trouble because it spends too much in R&D? Or are these occasional?

All things said, you sort of admitted that there are several reasons for Sony's losses, and yet your stance is that shareholders somehow will take a financially damaging road - cutting the PS3 life, thus losing the profit that comes from it overall thanks to software - because, what, they are not as good as you at analyzing their company's financial situation?

Please do explain.

Not releasing a new console and keeping your old console on the market longer does not (necessarily) translate into greater sales or increased profitability. For a variety of reasons, the longer you keep a console on the market with mediocre (or worse) sales the more damage you will do to your relationship with gamers, developers and retailers which can have a dramatic impact on how well your next system can sell.



Smashchu2 said:
Spoon! said:

@Smashch2

"Investors will probably want the PS3 gone, asking why they are in an unprofitable market. If Sony can not turn it around in terms of profitability, expect to see the investors deny a PS4. Again, Sony is not a game company. Nintendo can always gets a game system past their investors becuase they invested in a video game company. Sony investors invested in a hardware company that deals in entertainment. They are numerous outlets besides gaming."


Just so you know, investors do not have a say in what the company produces. Sure the investors can be upset and they can voice their opinion by selling their stocks, but as far as votes go,  it is usually just to vote for who will be on the managing board (and the choices are limited), and when the company will make changes to the stocks which will directly affect them such as a stock dividend, stock split or merging with another company. Sure, keeping the investors happy is a goal of any company, but that doesn't mean they can stop the PS4.

Investors pressure that company into doing what they want. Ever heard the phrase used in relationships "If she aint happy, you aint happy?" Same thing. If the investors are not happy, the board is not happy. They aren't going to go dirrectly against the people putting money into the company. That's just stupid. If the investors want Sony out of the videogame market, they are out.

The bolded line shows how naive you are. If the market is unfaviorable, why stay there? The investors expect a high return, so they will pressure the company into actions. Sony will not hold onto the PS line just because Spoon! wants it to be so. The system is unprofitable. Investors will be angry and question the Playsation line. Sony will probably respond and end the Playstation line. If the system is not profitable soon, expect the PS4 to be the Dreamcast 2. There is no way they could justify a PS4 is the brand isn't making profit. 


Wow, you seem to be taking this personally and are starting to get insulting. Not once did I say that the company should keep the PS3 because I want them to, nor was I being naive. Sony does not make any money off of the investors in the secondary market, they only get an influx of capital with an IPO, or when releasing more shares from private stores, but that is a different story.

My point is that the investors do not have as much control over Sony, or any other company for that matter, as you seem to think they have.  If Sony has a long term strategy that includes a PS4 then they will not change that because stock holders are upset. Stock holders do not run a company and if you believe it to be true I would like to know what experience you have. Are you a stock broker? Do you or have you ever worked in the financial industry? Do you have shares and have you ever gone to a shareholders meeting? I've worked for a transfer company and read countless proxies, and presently work at a webstreaming company that streams many shareholder meetings, and so when I say Sony will stick to their game plan even if it upsets the investors I'm speaking from my experiences. Yes I've seen shareholder meetings where the shareholders were upset, they get to ask questions of the execs, and the execs try to spin it to make everything seem hunky dory, because it's a PR game, but I have never seen them change their goals.

If anything, Sony would address the concerns of the investors by illustrating the long term gains of keeping the PS3 and then introducing a PS4 and telling the investors that this long term strategy will be lucrative and the investors may grumble about it, but if Sony wants it then it will happen. And once again, it does not matter what I want. Oh, and if I did have the power to get what I want just by wishing it, keeping the PS3 alive would be pretty low on my list.

 

P.S. you never answered my question about 3rd parties leaving Sony from my other post.



MGS4COD4HALO3 said:

Okay so you are saying that the PS3 will only last 3 and 1/2 years on the market?  Dude for real you need to re-think your prediction.  In the first paragraph you said think logically about what your saying.  Well it seems like you didn't take your own advice.  I'm not trying to talk trash or anything, but seriously why would sony bring out a new system next summer when all of there big games are coming out at the same time for the PS3. 

2010 would be 4 years, not 3 and a half.

@Spoon!: The last paragraph is bolded becuase it way though it was bolded, and I could not change it back (I pasted your name and it happens whenever I do that).

While I'll make a full responce to your post, understand the purpose is that inversors hold power of a corperation. Money is power, and these guys are the suppliers of said money. They sway a lot of desicions becuase they want to see their investment to have some kind of return. If the PS3 is never profitable, then they will not back a PS4. R&D has large cost that can take a year or two before seeing profit. A PS4 will not happen if the PS3 doesn't show to have some use to the company. Right now, it isn't since it is bleeding money.



^ but... the recent numbers released showed that the ps3 isnt the big sink hole everyone made it out to be... so... where is the money going? R&D of psp2 would be my guess. seriously stop overreacting



Max King of the Wild said:
^ but... the recent numbers released showed that the ps3 isnt the big sink hole everyone made it out to be... so... where is the money going? R&D of psp2 would be my guess. seriously stop overreacting

The system loses ~$40 bucks on each one sold. Meaning that they are never making money, just losing less. Numbers I have seen are not good and show the losses of the PS3 overtaking the profits of the PS1 and PS2.