Piracy only hurts gaming by proxy of the publisher reaction to it, actually. The sad part about all of this is that this is not the first time the industry has had to learn this lesson. Back in the 1980s, piracy was proportionally almost as rampant as it is now, due to massive consumer dissatisfaction in the efforts publishers went to to keep games from being pirated. Once they stopped including copy protection methods, and allowed the market to do its thing, piracy had a very brief spike and then went back down to reasonably low levels as consumers realized that they could once again buy games and not be punished for it.

This current wave of anti-piracy is no different in spirit, though in form it's about 500 times nastier. Just like the 1980s scare about software piracy, the efforts of publishers to prevent piracy is only resulting in more piracy. And just like the solution to said previous scare, the solution to this wave of piracy is to ease off and let the market do its thing.

Not until we ban the shills who work for the marketing agencies hired by the large video game corporations (which we're trying to help for some odd reason)

Sky Render

You are right in what you say that rising the price to over come piracy just makes it worse it just means more people become pirates the major problem is that pricing can only go so low before it become pointless in making games.

That's not true at all, mjdans. Like I said, price can always go lower as long as you're willing to adjust HOW you make the product. Reduce the cost of making a game, and reducing the price of the game will not have a negative impact. It's quaint to say that a game has to have cutting-edge visuals and sound to sell, but that's slightly undermined when you realize that pretty much every top-selling game ever was not and is not cutting edge in either department. Rather, they excel in terms of gameplay and mass appeal, relative to the era they were developed in.

mjdans said: Selling something you own is not illegal while something is legal there is no problem. Also selling used games serves to allow people to buy new game's It is not up to any of us to tell each other how to behave, but piracy hurts gaming which in turn hurts gamers

This is nonsensical and not particularly thought through. 1.So all things legal are just, and non harmful? Developers and publishers would strongly disagree. 2. Selling 10 used games to buy 1 new game (which is very realistic given how much places like gamestop rip you off) means that publishers will be losing out on the sale of ten games to 1. You just contributed your 10 games to a source that will be selling them used, which means that publishers and developers will not get a cut on those 10 games you just put into the market, to buy that one game. You've done considerable damage to the industry, you definitely have not helped it. 3. Gamestop hurts the industry and in turn hurts gamers. I'm not saying piracy is ok, I believe it is wrong as much as the next guy. But saying "let's ban all pirates from being on these boards!" is just self righteous stupidity.

axumblade said: The_vagabond7 said: Should we ban people who buy used games too? Should we ban people who turn in their used games to gamestop, or sell them on e-bay? What about people renting games? These people hurt the industry as well, demonstrably more than pirates even. Publishers and developers loathe gamestop, back when renting first started various videogame companies tried to sue blockbuster (and failed). 2nd hand sales and rentals may be legal but they are a massive drain on companies, they are parasites the same as pirates. Maybe we should ban gamestop employees too, and anybody with an E-bay profile, just to make sure they don't advocate their parasitic ways and poison the minds of good upright supporters such as ourselves. Won't somebody think of the children? You know...there is a difference between those things and piracy. Renting a game or buying games is giving back to the economy. There is a difference in that and downloading a game illegally. Starcraft is talking about pirates who basically come on here and brag about stealing the games. I completely agree with Starcraft on this issue. Piracy may not have killed the Dreamcast completely but it sure as hell didn't help it. Same goes for the PSP.

It gives back to the economy, but not to the publishers/developers. When you buy used games, that money you're putting into the economy is just going into the pockets of the CEOs of gamestop. Starcrafts beef isn't that pirates hurt the overall economy of Japan/US, it's that it's not benefitting the people putting out our games. Publishers hate gamestop, and their parasitic nature. Supporting their behavior hurts the industry but helps gamestop. Which from an ethical standpoint isn't much different than hurting the publisher but benefiting the gamer (who will then use the money he saved to put into the economy in some other form, but that doesn't make it somehow better). Legality does not equate morality.

That's a horrible idea. If people choose to be assholes that's their choice. They shouldn't be banned for it on VG. Especially the awesomeness that is 2.0

The only mod I have is a modded Xbox 360 controller for Call of Duty or other shooters.

Why do people care that these publishers are losing money on used game sells, pirating and renting all of a sudden?

It's there fault for making bad investments and not adjusting their business model with the way things are.

To a point prices could come down, what you say is correct that reducing cost of production would help a lot nintendo are a good example of this they have one of the highest turn over per worker ratio's if all dev's could do so prices could come down.

The other thing is prices are set to demand which goes against this outlook.[price are set to get best result from demand]

yes game play is king.

axumblade said: The_vagabond7 said: axumblade said: The_vagabond7 said: Should we ban people who buy used games too? Should we ban people who turn in their used games to gamestop, or sell them on e-bay? What about people renting games? These people hurt the industry as well, demonstrably more than pirates even. Publishers and developers loathe gamestop, back when renting first started various videogame companies tried to sue blockbuster (and failed). 2nd hand sales and rentals may be legal but they are a massive drain on companies, they are parasites the same as pirates. Maybe we should ban gamestop employees too, and anybody with an E-bay profile, just to make sure they don't advocate their parasitic ways and poison the minds of good upright supporters such as ourselves. Won't somebody think of the children? You know...there is a difference between those things and piracy. Renting a game or buying games is giving back to the economy. There is a difference in that and downloading a game illegally. Starcraft is talking about pirates who basically come on here and brag about stealing the games. I completely agree with Starcraft on this issue. Piracy may not have killed the Dreamcast completely but it sure as hell didn't help it. Same goes for the PSP. It gives back to the economy, but not to the publishers/developers. When you buy used games, that money you're putting into the economy is just going into the pockets of the CEOs of gamestop. Starcrafts beef isn't that pirates hurt the overall economy of Japan/US, it's that it's not benefitting the people putting out our games. Publishers hate gamestop, and their parasitic nature. Supporting their behavior hurts the industry but helps gamestop. Which from an ethical standpoint isn't much different than hurting the publisher but benefiting the gamer (who will then use the money he saved to put into the economy in some other form, but that doesn't make it somehow better). Legality does not equate morality. While I do understand that, I also have to say that gamestop does help with game sales though. If you've ever been to a midnight launch, you might understand due to the popularity of buying the games at midnight and the amount of people that show up to buy the game. While used games are a bad thing when it comes to the industry, Gamestop are also the only place to find a lot of niche titles. I haven't seen Hammerin' Hero or Prinny: Can I Really Be The Hero? at any other place besides Gamestop because the titles are too obscure for most businesses in the area to carry in store. So I could have either waited until the game hit other companies sites (which Hammerin' Hero hasn't...) or go to Gamestop and buy it. They do still contribute to the gaming industry, it's just the used games that hurt the industry.

Which is what I was talking about. Should we ban everyone who buys used games, and sells theirs? Since they too are hurting the industry.