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Forums - Sony - Cage: Heavy Rain not possible on Xbox 360

Zizzla_Rachet on 17 May 2009
Staude said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
The_God_of_War said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Skeeuk said:
how come we dont hear and see any game like heavy rain on 360 in grafix? how come? its because there isnt any.

if 360 is more powerful then its exclusives should look better.

Raz your just flip flopping about, ps3 grafix are better than 360 grafix. i have both consoles and had 360 1st, its clearly evident on my telly that ps3 games look better.

 

 You forget How Long PS3 Exclusive games spend being Developed...So far No Game on Xbox 360 besides Alan Wake and Splinter Cell Have been in Development for more than a year and Half.....While PS3 games Like Heavy Rain(Shown In 2006) KillZone 2(Shown 2005)...God Of War 3..(What 5 Years Now?)

 

Fable 2, Halo Wars, Banjo: Nuts and Bolts, Halo 3 (All announced in 2006) and others all had years in development. God of War 3 has taken nowhere near 5 years, development started after GOW 2's release in early 2007.

Lion Head Is Pretty New as a Dev Team...I would Say that They Are doing Ok...And SHould get better once they have more Expirience.....Fable Is not A bad looking Game..But Lion Head has much to Learn yet...

Halo 3 has Forge...Which I would Imagine Takes a while to Intergrate and Have it working Smothly.....Also Being Able to Record your gameplay Videos take much Intergration...

For Some reason I thought God Of War 2 had come out earlier than that..I was wrong

 

 

Are you serious ? they're pretty old. They made the black and white series too.

I never Played Black and White..And don't know what it's about..I've also never played or Bought a Fable Game...Sorry Guess their just new to me...

 



 



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Zizzla_Rachet on 17 May 2009
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Staude said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Skeeuk said:
how come we dont hear and see any game like heavy rain on 360 in grafix? how come? its because there isnt any.

if 360 is more powerful then its exclusives should look better.

Raz your just flip flopping about, ps3 grafix are better than 360 grafix. i have both consoles and had 360 1st, its clearly evident on my telly that ps3 games look better.

 

 You forget How Long PS3 Exclusive games spend being Developed...So far No Game on Xbox 360 besides Alan Wake and Splinter Cell Have been in Development for more than a year and Half.....While PS3 games Like Heavy Rain(Shown In 2006) KillZone 2(Shown 2005)...God Of War 3..(What 5 Years Now?)

Isn't Uncharted 2 around a year and a half?

Yeah But But you would Have to Add the 2 and half years of Uncharted one for them to have that engine ready...

 

So you're saying that gears of war has been in development since.. what 96 ? that's as long as duke nukem forever :p

 

What are you talking About?.......Oh I think I get it....An Unreal Engine Joke....Get to the Back of the Line...We all have Jokes about UNreal Engine...

 

The sad thing is that he's not being serious, but you were with your previous comment with Uncharted 2. All he did was use the same exact logic you did, and now you're instantly attacking your own argument, just because it's being used by a PS3 defender against a Xbox 360 game.

You should go to the back of the line.

 

 

 Read the Post that I made which right above this post that I qouted....



 



Akvod on 17 May 2009
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Staude said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Skeeuk said:
how come we dont hear and see any game like heavy rain on 360 in grafix? how come? its because there isnt any.

if 360 is more powerful then its exclusives should look better.

Raz your just flip flopping about, ps3 grafix are better than 360 grafix. i have both consoles and had 360 1st, its clearly evident on my telly that ps3 games look better.

 

 You forget How Long PS3 Exclusive games spend being Developed...So far No Game on Xbox 360 besides Alan Wake and Splinter Cell Have been in Development for more than a year and Half.....While PS3 games Like Heavy Rain(Shown In 2006) KillZone 2(Shown 2005)...God Of War 3..(What 5 Years Now?)

Isn't Uncharted 2 around a year and a half?

Yeah But But you would Have to Add the 2 and half years of Uncharted one for them to have that engine ready...

 

So you're saying that gears of war has been in development since.. what 96 ? that's as long as duke nukem forever :p

 

Yeah, I agree Staude, that was a pretty silly reply and flawed logic...

 

 

 How So?...You Believe that Uncharted 2 is New Codes?...I don't think so...Unreal engine is popular and effective but if You go a few pages back..You would see that I agree that Devs Using Unreal engine get Lazy....Not that the Unreal Engine is Bad....But It's a Short Cut nontheless...

I understood the first part of your argument, but can you please rephrase the second part concerning UE? And the first part of your argument, we can apply to every single sequel and say that they've actually been in development for the development cycle of the first game+second game, which is just ridiculous. Very rarely do people build everything from scratch. In fact, if you consider plot, character, concept, etc part of development (which is), then every sequel must include its previous incarnation's development cycle, regardless of technological/engine changes. So Halo 3= Halo 3+Halo 2+Halo development cycle... which is pretty ridiculous.

 



Staude on 17 May 2009
dcIKeeL said:
Staude said:

dcIKeeL said:
Staude said:

 

If you look at the pure specs what you'll see is 9 active processors at 3.2ghz in the ps3 and 3 in the 360.

And ram wize you'll see 512mg gddr3 rams in the 360 operating at 700mhz while you'll see 256mb gddr3 ram in the ps3 operating at 700 mhz and 256 mb xdr ram operating at 3.2 ghz.

 

:p

 

Furthermore. Practically all multiplat games that run worse on the ps3 were either early in the life cycle, on the unreal engine (built for singlecore technology. Fitting with the 360 because it's cores share. Bottlenecking eachother) or in general made by developers who dump everything on the ppu (one of the ps3s cores) not using the spus.

Yes if you only use the ppu you can get a slightly inferior game to using all 3 of the 360s cores :p

But heres the trick. There are 6.5 other processors you can use. And they'll do anything. You can throw ai at them, various junk code, Rendering. That's right. The SPUs can render FOR the graphics card. I showed this like.. Yep i posted these pics on the first page. But i'll post them again.

I suggest you read the whole pdf. It's pretty interesting. What I showed you was just an example within the pdf.

This was from santa monicas keynote at this years gdc.

http://www.tilander.org/aurora/comp/gdc2009_Tilander_Filippov_SPU.pdf

The ps3 is also used by scientists because the powerful processor matches that of a super computer and it's used in the WORLDS STRONGEST COMPUTER. You don't think they would opt for the much cheaper 360 if it had anywhere near the same amount of juice ?

 

 Boy o Boy, we really are getting dumber aren't we? First of all, your little research there, is automatically thrash as soon as i read "our frame". You should get your information from an objective neutral source not sony or anyone who supports them. Like I sead before, the ps3 and 360 both use the exact same chip/core. EXACT SAME ONE! Why, because they were developed by an engineer named Dave Shippy and his team at IBM, in conjunction with sony, toshiba and later microsoft. That supercomputer chip and core, is in the 360 as well mr. sony minion. This is how it went in summarized laymans terms: It was IBM's chip, IBM was commissioned by Sony and Toshiba to build it, nearly 2 years into the design phase of "THE CELL" IBM struct a deal with Microsoft and decided that It's engineers (dave shippy and company) and they're chip, was also being designed for Microsoft. IBM came to an agreement with sony, toshiba and microsoft that they'd make this 1 COMMON CORE with new features and every company's input would be considered when ever possible. All parties agreed, chip was made, end of story. According to Dave Shippy, the creator of the powerpc processing core(supercomputer chip) and the cell, when asked which company used his processor more efficiently and therefore which console was more powerful he resonded: "I think they're fairly equal. What's interesting is that the powerpc common in both systems is used in completely different ways". Meaning the way the cell uses it's core and the way 360's architecture uses it differ greatly but in the end they're equal, one is more efficient than the other at different things and cancel each other out. You can argue with the designer of the cores if you choose, but this definitely puts a gaping hole in your supercomputer nonsense....seeing as BOTH the ps3 and the 360 are powered by the same processor in your cute little supercomputer.

Word of advice, grow up and be objective to everything, argue with logic not emotion and personal preference, it makes you say stupid bias things like this.

WOW i hope you aren't serious. besides personal insults are forbidden on this forum. Before calling someone stupid you might wanna get your fact straight.

The Processors are completely differently built. The only thing they share in common is the ppe.

 

No way ! I can't honestly believe you think that. Wow !

Also i believe when you call someone dumb you are arguing with emotions.

 

 

CPU

Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS

 

And it's their frame.. because it's their game and they need to get it operating within that frame. My point was that you can use the spus for grahpical purposes. And even though the xenon is based on a modified version of the ppe it has nothing to do with spus :p And those are the ones that make the ps3 a beast. .. Not to mention unique.

CPU

Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS

This is the exact same processor the xbox 360 runs on, this is what powers both systems, this is what powers (in part) the supercomputer you speak of, this is the most important thing, esseantially, both systems are equally strong since they share the exact same processor and obviously processing power, it's how each platform uses and distributes that power where they differ. But even then the xenon and the cell, have they're pros and cons and in the end they even each other out. Doing certain things better than the other respectively, non of which by the way, is a large difference by any stretch of the imagination.

Research the book: The Race For a New Game Machine by David Shippy and Mickie Phipps, to see why I OMG am crazy to believe they use the same chips/processor. If you don't then you're afraid to be wrong, want to turn the other way or just don't care enough, to which i ask, why are u arguing then?

 

lol look at this i highlight in my own post.

:p

But it was modified. To be more of a general purpose ppe.

 

And again. It still doesn't have any spus :p

 

oh and yeah... it also still has faster ram for the processor. (ie xdr ram. 3.2ghz vg gddr3 ram, 700mhz.) Not to mention more cache.. and individual cache for each spu.



Check out my game about moles ^

Akvod on 17 May 2009
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Staude said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Skeeuk said:
how come we dont hear and see any game like heavy rain on 360 in grafix? how come? its because there isnt any.

if 360 is more powerful then its exclusives should look better.

Raz your just flip flopping about, ps3 grafix are better than 360 grafix. i have both consoles and had 360 1st, its clearly evident on my telly that ps3 games look better.

 

 You forget How Long PS3 Exclusive games spend being Developed...So far No Game on Xbox 360 besides Alan Wake and Splinter Cell Have been in Development for more than a year and Half.....While PS3 games Like Heavy Rain(Shown In 2006) KillZone 2(Shown 2005)...God Of War 3..(What 5 Years Now?)

Isn't Uncharted 2 around a year and a half?

Yeah But But you would Have to Add the 2 and half years of Uncharted one for them to have that engine ready...

 

So you're saying that gears of war has been in development since.. what 96 ? that's as long as duke nukem forever :p

 

What are you talking About?.......Oh I think I get it....An Unreal Engine Joke....Get to the Back of the Line...We all have Jokes about UNreal Engine...

 

The sad thing is that he's not being serious, but you were with your previous comment with Uncharted 2. All he did was use the same exact logic you did, and now you're instantly attacking your own argument, just because it's being used by a PS3 defender against a Xbox 360 game.

You should go to the back of the line.

 

 

 Read the Post that I made which right above this post that I qouted....

I don't know if English isn't your primary language, but I really can't understand your post. Anyway, I read all the posts quoted, and they were:

Why doesn't 360 have games looking as good as X, Y, Z

You argued that PS3 games take a long time to develop

I mentioned U2 took only roughly a 1.5-2 years

You made the ridiculous argument that we should add on the development cycle of U1 (which PS3 fanboys tried to use against Geow2 during the KZ2 hype train, and I'm sure you would have probably argued against that)

Staude made a sarcastic joke using the same logic you did to show how ridiculous it was

You genuinely argued against it, failing to realized that he used your own argument and logic.

I said that you failed to realize that Stauded used your own argument and logic.

You told me to read a specific quote.

And here I am now, summarizing this ridiculous exchange.



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Zizzla_Rachet on 17 May 2009
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Staude said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Skeeuk said:
how come we dont hear and see any game like heavy rain on 360 in grafix? how come? its because there isnt any.

if 360 is more powerful then its exclusives should look better.

Raz your just flip flopping about, ps3 grafix are better than 360 grafix. i have both consoles and had 360 1st, its clearly evident on my telly that ps3 games look better.

 

 You forget How Long PS3 Exclusive games spend being Developed...So far No Game on Xbox 360 besides Alan Wake and Splinter Cell Have been in Development for more than a year and Half.....While PS3 games Like Heavy Rain(Shown In 2006) KillZone 2(Shown 2005)...God Of War 3..(What 5 Years Now?)

Isn't Uncharted 2 around a year and a half?

Yeah But But you would Have to Add the 2 and half years of Uncharted one for them to have that engine ready...

 

So you're saying that gears of war has been in development since.. what 96 ? that's as long as duke nukem forever :p

 

Yeah, I agree Staude, that was a pretty silly reply and flawed logic...

 

 

 How So?...You Believe that Uncharted 2 is New Codes?...I don't think so...Unreal engine is popular and effective but if You go a few pages back..You would see that I agree that Devs Using Unreal engine get Lazy....Not that the Unreal Engine is Bad....But It's a Short Cut nontheless...

I understood the first part of your argument, but can you please rephrase the second part concerning UE? And the first part of your argument, we can apply to every single sequel and say that they've actually been in development for the development cycle of the first game+second game, which is just ridiculous. Very rarely do people build everything from scratch. In fact, if you consider plot, character, concept, etc part of development (which is), then every sequel must include its previous incarnation's development cycle, regardless of technological/engine changes. So Halo 3= Halo 3+Halo 2+Halo development cycle... which is pretty ridiculous.

 

Halo....I agree...Besides A higher Polygon count it's the same...If you Dont agree that Uncharted is Running on the Same engine..Well...I don't really care...

The Unreal engine is full of Shortcuts to get a Game Models look High end..But has alot of Down Side since Not Every one is a good as Epic Using it...The last Remnant Is one of the ONly Good Uses of the Unreal Engine on a Console that i've seen but again...You can see things that are inheirit from Unreal engine....And While the Games look Great...the Short Cuts taken by devs Can be seen....Since I game on 360 I know what these things are. 



 



Staude on 17 May 2009
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:

I understood the first part of your argument, but can you please rephrase the second part concerning UE? And the first part of your argument, we can apply to every single sequel and say that they've actually been in development for the development cycle of the first game+second game, which is just ridiculous. Very rarely do people build everything from scratch. In fact, if you consider plot, character, concept, etc part of development (which is), then every sequel must include its previous incarnation's development cycle, regardless of technological/engine changes. So Halo 3= Halo 3+Halo 2+Halo development cycle... which is pretty ridiculous.

 

Halo....I agree...Besides A higher Polygon count it's the same...If you Dont agree that Uncharted is Running on the Same engine..Well...I don't really care...

The Unreal engine is full of Shortcuts to get a Game Models look High end..But has alot of Down Side since Not Every one is a good as Epic Using it...The last Remnant Is one of the ONly Good Uses of the Unreal Engine on a Console that i've seen but again...You can see things that are inheirit from Unreal engine....And While the Games look Great...the Short Cuts taken by devs Can be seen....Since I game on 360 I know what these things are. 

The unreal engine has been in the works since the 90s. Sure uncharted 2 is based on the same engine as uncharted 1, but they've made changes too it. Upgraded it :p

 

Did you know newly released red alert 3 is using the same engine (at the core) as command & conquer 64 ?

(the w3d engine) meaning it's been in use for more than a decade too.

It's like that with a lot of engines. I'm surprised so many of sonys developers take their time to make new engines each gen just to make sure it's tailered perfectly around the hardware. That's dedication :p

 

I agree with the unreal engine making the developers take a lot of shortcuts btw. That's probably why those who license it rarely tries to mess with it to make it fit properly on the ps3 hardware. Because they want to skip that whole stage of the game development. It's quite easy to make a game with that engine. It's like a sandbox so to speak.

 



Check out my game about moles ^

Akvod on 17 May 2009
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Staude said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Skeeuk said:
how come we dont hear and see any game like heavy rain on 360 in grafix? how come? its because there isnt any.

if 360 is more powerful then its exclusives should look better.

Raz your just flip flopping about, ps3 grafix are better than 360 grafix. i have both consoles and had 360 1st, its clearly evident on my telly that ps3 games look better.

 

 You forget How Long PS3 Exclusive games spend being Developed...So far No Game on Xbox 360 besides Alan Wake and Splinter Cell Have been in Development for more than a year and Half.....While PS3 games Like Heavy Rain(Shown In 2006) KillZone 2(Shown 2005)...God Of War 3..(What 5 Years Now?)

Isn't Uncharted 2 around a year and a half?

Yeah But But you would Have to Add the 2 and half years of Uncharted one for them to have that engine ready...

 

So you're saying that gears of war has been in development since.. what 96 ? that's as long as duke nukem forever :p

 

Yeah, I agree Staude, that was a pretty silly reply and flawed logic...

 

 

 How So?...You Believe that Uncharted 2 is New Codes?...I don't think so...Unreal engine is popular and effective but if You go a few pages back..You would see that I agree that Devs Using Unreal engine get Lazy....Not that the Unreal Engine is Bad....But It's a Short Cut nontheless...

I understood the first part of your argument, but can you please rephrase the second part concerning UE? And the first part of your argument, we can apply to every single sequel and say that they've actually been in development for the development cycle of the first game+second game, which is just ridiculous. Very rarely do people build everything from scratch. In fact, if you consider plot, character, concept, etc part of development (which is), then every sequel must include its previous incarnation's development cycle, regardless of technological/engine changes. So Halo 3= Halo 3+Halo 2+Halo development cycle... which is pretty ridiculous.

 

Halo....I agree...Besides A higher Polygon count it's the same...If you Dont agree that Uncharted is Running on the Same engine..Well...I don't really care...

The Unreal engine is full of Shortcuts to get a Game Models look High end..But has alot of Down Side since Not Every one is a good as Epic Using it...The last Remnant Is one of the ONly Good Uses of the Unreal Engine on a Console that i've seen but again...You can see things that are inheirit from Unreal engine....And While the Games look Great...the Short Cuts taken by devs Can be seen....Since I game on 360 I know what these things are. 

I haven't played Last Remnant, but from the reviews I read, and the screenshots I saw, not only does it not look that great, but isn't there a lot of technical problems? I was really confused why SE was using an engine they weren't used to, it's not like Western gamers are buying a game because it uses a Western engine.

And for your first part, don't you realize that you're pretty much conceding to Staude's sarcastic argument? Games build off of prior technologies and concept. KZ2 was criticized for having no innovation. You're criticizing U2 for using U1 as a foundation instead of completely scrapping an engine entirely (which is why Staude made that joke about Gears). Nothing is going to be completely orginal nor made entirely out of scratch. That's in fact, the beauty of humans, that is why language was the most important invention of mankind, and history should never be forgotten. We suffer and work hard in the past, and learn from it to make the future more easy, and that cycle continues. Science thrives when people share their works so that others can replicate, improve, and build off of previous knowledge, instead of doing an experiment and discovering the exact same thing someone else already did.

I'm sure that you'll agree that U2 isn't the exact same thing as U1. There are improvements and those improvements make it unique to U1.

 



Zizzla_Rachet on 17 May 2009
Staude said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
 

I understood the first part of your argument, but can you please rephrase the second part concerning UE? And the first part of your argument, we can apply to every single sequel and say that they've actually been in development for the development cycle of the first game+second game, which is just ridiculous. Very rarely do people build everything from scratch. In fact, if you consider plot, character, concept, etc part of development (which is), then every sequel must include its previous incarnation's development cycle, regardless of technological/engine changes. So Halo 3= Halo 3+Halo 2+Halo development cycle... which is pretty ridiculous.

 

Halo....I agree...Besides A higher Polygon count it's the same...If you Dont agree that Uncharted is Running on the Same engine..Well...I don't really care...

The Unreal engine is full of Shortcuts to get a Game Models look High end..But has alot of Down Side since Not Every one is a good as Epic Using it...The last Remnant Is one of the ONly Good Uses of the Unreal Engine on a Console that i've seen but again...You can see things that are inheirit from Unreal engine....And While the Games look Great...the Short Cuts taken by devs Can be seen....Since I game on 360 I know what these things are. 

The unreal engine has been in the works since the 90s. Sure uncharted 2 is based on the same engine as uncharted 1, but they've made changes too it. Upgraded it :p

 

Did you know newly released red alert 3 is using the same engine (at the core) as command & conquer 64 ?

(the w3d engine) meaning it's been in use for more than a decade too.

It's like that with a lot of engines. I'm surprised so many of sonys developers take their time to make new engines each gen just to make sure it's tailered perfectly around the hardware. That's dedication :p

 

Sure why not....But that does not mean a thing when speaking about how long PS3 exclusive have been In development.........

 

And As for Heavy Rain.......I know this is the Oldest video...But...LOL....If the 360 Can't do that..Then PS3 deserves to win the Console war...

 



 



Zizzla_Rachet on 17 May 2009
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Staude said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Akvod said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
Skeeuk said:
how come we dont hear and see any game like heavy rain on 360 in grafix? how come? its because there isnt any.

if 360 is more powerful then its exclusives should look better.

Raz your just flip flopping about, ps3 grafix are better than 360 grafix. i have both consoles and had 360 1st, its clearly evident on my telly that ps3 games look better.

 

 You forget How Long PS3 Exclusive games spend being Developed...So far No Game on Xbox 360 besides Alan Wake and Splinter Cell Have been in Development for more than a year and Half.....While PS3 games Like Heavy Rain(Shown In 2006) KillZone 2(Shown 2005)...God Of War 3..(What 5 Years Now?)

Isn't Uncharted 2 around a year and a half?

Yeah But But you would Have to Add the 2 and half years of Uncharted one for them to have that engine ready...

 

So you're saying that gears of war has been in development since.. what 96 ? that's as long as duke nukem forever :p

 

Yeah, I agree Staude, that was a pretty silly reply and flawed logic...

 

 

 How So?...You Believe that Uncharted 2 is New Codes?...I don't think so...Unreal engine is popular and effective but if You go a few pages back..You would see that I agree that Devs Using Unreal engine get Lazy....Not that the Unreal Engine is Bad....But It's a Short Cut nontheless...

I understood the first part of your argument, but can you please rephrase the second part concerning UE? And the first part of your argument, we can apply to every single sequel and say that they've actually been in development for the development cycle of the first game+second game, which is just ridiculous. Very rarely do people build everything from scratch. In fact, if you consider plot, character, concept, etc part of development (which is), then every sequel must include its previous incarnation's development cycle, regardless of technological/engine changes. So Halo 3= Halo 3+Halo 2+Halo development cycle... which is pretty ridiculous.

 

Halo....I agree...Besides A higher Polygon count it's the same...If you Dont agree that Uncharted is Running on the Same engine..Well...I don't really care...

The Unreal engine is full of Shortcuts to get a Game Models look High end..But has alot of Down Side since Not Every one is a good as Epic Using it...The last Remnant Is one of the ONly Good Uses of the Unreal Engine on a Console that i've seen but again...You can see things that are inheirit from Unreal engine....And While the Games look Great...the Short Cuts taken by devs Can be seen....Since I game on 360 I know what these things are. 

I haven't played Last Remnant, but from the reviews I read, and the screenshots I saw, not only does it not look that great, but isn't there a lot of technical problems? I was really confused why SE was using an engine they weren't used to, it's not like Western gamers are buying a game because it uses a Western engine.

And for your first part, don't you realize that you're pretty much conceding to Staude's sarcastic argument? Games build off of prior technologies and concept. KZ2 was criticized for having no innovation. You're criticizing U2 for using U1 as a foundation instead of completely scrapping an engine entirely (which is why Staude made that joke about Gears). Nothing is going to be completely orginal nor made entirely out of scratch. That's in fact, the beauty of humans, that is why language was the most important invention of mankind, and history should never be forgotten. We suffer and work hard in the past, and learn from it to make the future more easy, and that cycle continues. Science thrives when people share their works so that others can replicate, improve, and build off of previous knowledge, instead of doing an experiment and discovering the exact same thing someone else already did.

I'm sure that you'll agree that U2 isn't the exact same thing as U1. There are improvements and those improvements make it unique to U1.

 

So far None in the first Disc....If anything It does the UNreal Engine justice...
Gee..I thought KZ2 was Criticized for it's horrible sales....

Unreal Engine is up to 3 now.....