While you may laugh, they certainly exist.

http://www.gaypatriot.net/

@ Akvod
like I said, i don't really want to argue with you about when it is or is not alright to be proud, because we have wildly different views on the matter, and you seem to have some very strong views on the subject for whatever reason.

if you bothered to read the post title, you might understand the situation more clearly. You might understand that you're definition of pride being "proud because you accomplished something that's hard for you" is well suited to most gay peoples situation.

For example;
you think coming out of the closet isn't hard? how about accepting who you are through adversity, being shunted by up to or over 50% of the people you know, getting kicked out of school (my friend at the conservative private christian school I attended) getting kicked out of home (Me in 2007) getting alienated at your job (my friend who built house boats for a living was driven from his job) being trash talked on the Internet if you don't hide you sexuality (and banned from XBL), getting bashed for your sexual orientation, getting killed for your sexual orientation.

And there is a lot more.

so do not pretend that you can possibly understand what it is to be gay, even if some gay people never have any of these things happen to them and can't fully comprehend the adversity of others themselves, until society changes I will continue to be proud of who I am.

1. It's not a discussion about whether or not it's alright to be proud or not. Of course it's ok to be proud. I'm only questioning your reasons to being proud, and accusing them as being irrational and illogical.

2. What do you mean strong views? If you mean confident then sure, but what's wrong with being confident in your beliefs, aren't you confident in your beliefs, or do you have doubts yourself? Also isn't it because we have different views that we should discuss? Debates only create new ideas and are more productive then everyone just saying "Yeah" "Yep" "I agree".

3. I read the title, which is "Who here is OUT (openly gay) and proud"? I'm glad people accept my position, but that doesn't mean that their other qualities and things they believe is worthy of taking pride into is logical.

4. Appeal to emotion. Yes, I understand that being openly gay was unacceptable (and still is), and that there were many tragedies and attrocities. But those are, again, irrelevant. You're taking pride in the fact that you like to do people of the same sex. Please tell me, what part of that is admirable? It's certainly not shameful, but if wanting to have sex with someone of the same/opposite sex is admirable, boy have our standards on what a accomplishment/admirable trait is have gone down.

5. I never pretended to understand what it is to be gay. So then being homosexual isn't something pride worthy if society changes??? Then that's the circumstances that are making it pride worthy, not the sexual orientation itself.

Why don't you change your position to this:

"Who here is proud that they're not afraid of being openly gay when doing so is dangerous and burdening"? as opposed to "Who here is proud because they're gay" or "Who here is OUT and proud"? You may say that's what you meant in the first place, but you failed to emphasize the danger part, and only did a sobing appeal to emotion, just like every minority has done to justify their pride.

Akvod, you are not the worldwide expert on the logic of whether someone can or cannot feel proud about something.

You put forward an eloquent argument and I understand that it must be frustrating for you for others like myself to refuse to adhere to your whims just because you word them prettily, but seriously, i don't give a flying fuck whether or not some Japanese kid in the US has a problem with my stance on the matter or pride of overcoming the adversities of coming out, OR the wording of the title of the thread I made so other gay people can step out of the shadows and have light hearted conversation if they so choose.

Why don't you go make a thread about how logical the feeling of pride is pertaining to race or ethnicity and I am sure you can discuss the issue with like minded people.

I have no problem with gay people being noisy as they still don't have the right to marry people they're attracted too. Until that time I hope many more out and proud style threads are created.

Let us hope that some day sexuality truly becomes a non-issue, both legally and socially.

I find it more frusturating that you refuse to adress any of my arguments specificly. You label my arguments as just being "pretty", and without any substance, and you ignore to adress my points. If you don't give a flying fuck, then why have you responded to me, over and over? And it also shows that you're afraid of anybody challenging your world belief, and that you're the one that's stubborn and unwilling to open their minds. My ears are all open, I'm not here to just have a monologue. I WANT to hear what you have to say, but you rudely ignore my entire posts, and dismiss them as having no substance.

2. If I was going to make a thread, it would be how ILlogical the feeling of pride is pertaining to race or ethnicity. Obviously you haven't read my posts, which stressed this over and over (how sexual orientation is just as illogical of a reason to be proud as race and nationality).

I concluded that your best bet is change your statement from "Who's proud because they're gay?" to "Who's proud because they're willing to stand up to society and adversity, in order to be open about who they are".

You have said it's worthy of pride to want to have sex with someone of the same sex. Which I find stupid. And if it is pride worthy, then it should be pride worthy to be wanting to have sex with someone of the opposite sex. Lets all be proud because we have brown skin, because we have white skin. Lets all be proud because we have mustaches, or beards. With all this, it diminishes the worth and value of pride then, because it's so easy to have  something to be proud about.

I'm saying that you should be proud, not over sexual orientation, but because of the current circumstances and situation, and your personal willingess to say "fuck you" to society, and not hide in the shadows. You were close to saying that, but you still went to say lets be proud because of our sexual orientation, not because of the circumstances.

So if you don't give a fuck anymore, please do me the favor, and don't respond, I feel it's rude that I have to respond to someone who's unwilling to read the other person's post and only uses insults, after I gave them the benefit of reading their posts and responding to it specifically.

Akvod,

I think your ideas are lame and they hurt my eyes and i feel my IQ dropping by even considering them. I keep responding because I hope you will give up on your endeavors to have a e-pissing match with an OP in a thread which you choose to be a part of because you are unwilling to understand the concept of others having different views than you do.

I was close to being allowed to say I am proud was I? well whooop-de-fuckin-doo Akvod almost gave me consent to not shut down the thread because it offends him so.

Does this use words small enough for you to understand?
"The word pride is used in this case an antonym for shame, which has been used to control and oppress LGBT persons throughout history. Pride in this sense is an affirmation of ones self and the community as a whole."

I mean, that is great and all, but to many it is still so much more.

You're pathetic. Akvod found a hole in your logic and instead of trying to defend yourself rationally, you resort to almost racist comments. What does Akvod's heritage have to do with this? So what if he is Japanese? Grow up.

You are recycling the same old crap every single post, so do everyone a favour and shut up or find a way to express your thoughts that doesn't involve you making an idiot out of yourself. May I suggest the former.

1. It's extremely ironic that you say I'm the one unwilling to listen and understand other people's concepts when you don't even take the time to adress my points and tell me why I'm wrong and why I'm right. Instead you resort to ad hominem attacks, and personal insults.

2. To the contrary, I want you to continue the thread by having a conversation with me. I probably have prolonged this thread if anything, by continuing to post in here and bumping it. Everyone, regardless of their position, should be pro-discussion and free speach. Science has been built upon the exchange of knowledge and information, hence why I think the internet is one of, if not the, biggest inventions of man kind.

3. You can still not be ashamed without having to proud about something. I got this from wikipedia (If you don't like the source, please post the Merriam-Webster definition please: Pride is, depending upon context, either a high sense of the worth of one's self and one's own or a pleasure taken in the contemplation of these things. One definition of pride in the first sense comes from Augustine: "the love of one's own excellence." ^[1] In this sense, the opposite of pride is humility.

I don't see why one will feel great and feel that they're excelent just by their pure existence and the qualities that they were born with (skin color, sexual orientation, family name, etc). I feel that one must go out and live their life, and by actions distinguish themselves and create their self worth. Feeling of excellence, over something they were born with (such as family name) either makes you complacent, or superior over those who weren't born with those qualities (supereme race).

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But I'm not going to bump this thread up anymore. You clearly refuse to have a conversation with me, and exchange your knowledge and opinions with me, and to even read my point of views and opinions. This is turning out to be unproductive, as we're both having a monologue at this point.

I just want to end by saying I respect you as a person, I think you have good intentions, and although I disagree with your point of view I'm eager to hear your side and arguments.

@I_Heart_Nintendo, Akvod, and Killzowned

It's perfectly fine to argue with each other over whatever but please be civil to each other. If you have a problem with someone, don't insult or belittle them, just report them and leave it alone.