| I_Heart_Nintendo said: @ Akvod 1. like I said, i don't really want to argue with you about when it is or is not alright to be proud, 2, because we have wildly different views on the matter, and you seem to have some very strong views on the subject for whatever reason. 3. if you bothered to read the post title, you might understand the situation more clearly. You might understand that you're definition of pride being "proud because you accomplished something that's hard for you" is well suited to most gay peoples situation. 4. For example; you think coming out of the closet isn't hard? how about accepting who you are through adversity, being shunted by up to or over 50% of the people you know, getting kicked out of school (my friend at the conservative private christian school I attended) getting kicked out of home (Me in 2007) getting alienated at your job (my friend who built house boats for a living was driven from his job) being trash talked on the Internet if you don't hide you sexuality (and banned from XBL), getting bashed for your sexual orientation, getting killed for your sexual orientation. And there is a lot more. so do not pretend that you can possibly understand what it is to be gay, even if some gay people never have any of these things happen to them and can't fully comprehend the adversity of others themselves, until society changes I will continue to be proud of who I am. |
1. It's not a discussion about whether or not it's alright to be proud or not. Of course it's ok to be proud. I'm only questioning your reasons to being proud, and accusing them as being irrational and illogical.
2. What do you mean strong views? If you mean confident then sure, but what's wrong with being confident in your beliefs, aren't you confident in your beliefs, or do you have doubts yourself? Also isn't it because we have different views that we should discuss? Debates only create new ideas and are more productive then everyone just saying "Yeah" "Yep" "I agree".
3. I read the title, which is "Who here is OUT (openly gay) and proud"? I'm glad people accept my position, but that doesn't mean that their other qualities and things they believe is worthy of taking pride into is logical.
4. Appeal to emotion. Yes, I understand that being openly gay was unacceptable (and still is), and that there were many tragedies and attrocities. But those are, again, irrelevant. You're taking pride in the fact that you like to do people of the same sex. Please tell me, what part of that is admirable? It's certainly not shameful, but if wanting to have sex with someone of the same/opposite sex is admirable, boy have our standards on what a accomplishment/admirable trait is have gone down.
5. I never pretended to understand what it is to be gay. So then being homosexual isn't something pride worthy if society changes??? Then that's the circumstances that are making it pride worthy, not the sexual orientation itself.
Why don't you change your position to this:
"Who here is proud that they're not afraid of being openly gay when doing so is dangerous and burdening"? as opposed to "Who here is proud because they're gay" or "Who here is OUT and proud"? You may say that's what you meant in the first place, but you failed to emphasize the danger part, and only did a sobing appeal to emotion, just like every minority has done to justify their pride.
