I think it is poor form to call out a expert on the field when you have no education or even experience within the field they are discussing. They know what they are talking about while you do not. Further more Factor 5 has a track record that speaks for itself when it comes to hardware usage. I think everyone needs to keep an open mind.

MikeB said: @ HappySqurriel Factor 5 has produced some of the most technically impressive games available on the N64, some of the most technically impressive games of the previous generation, and has (currently) produced one of the most technically impressive games on the PS3 and you claim that the real reason they had problems was "weak ass coding" Sure they have talented coders, Turrican 1 & 2 were great games for the Amiga 500, but they never came close to maxing out the hardware. For example Thalion's LionHeart came much closer with regard to diskette based games. Judging from videos and considering its huge scale environments all in 1080p (something Microsoft claimed to be impossible!), Lair is technically an impressive game for today's standards, nomatter if you actually like the gameplay or not, but future games are going to push the hardware a lot more. BTW, the N64 would be maxed out a lot easier than the PS3 (even with the bold IMO that's still an understatement )

Are you delusional?

For starters, comparing what Factor 5 pulled off in the early 90s is a better comparison that what they pulled off 99 or 2001 - because thats what you're saying.

Secondly, the N64 was a clusterfuck of a system. Some parts were very powerful for its day, but others severe bottlenecks, not to mention the whole microcode issue. Factor 5 pulled off some of the most technically impressive games on that system, on par with Rare. Their Indiana Jones games made the hardware do thing most people thought impossible.

Not to mention they pulled off some amazing things on the GC at launch. Granted, the GC was relativly eaasy to develop for, but its notheless an amazing accomplishment, especially when compared to what other developers pulled off.

But hey, if you want to think a long dead computer is a better benchmark of a company than a last gen system, go ahead.

IMHO Egglebrecht needs to just shut it. As if Lair failing wasn't enough, he has to go and make all these assinine, untrue statements. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Factor 5 now starts making games for the Wii.

Ah well our dear starcraft (I love the game btw - too bad someone like that got the nick) will post anything ,that has a negative spin for the PS3 .. well, there are childish people like that and ofcourse some PS3 fans/Wii fans do the same.

So, I won't post anything in his threads again , for it's just futile to try to talk to those people.

@ sieanr

Can you please be a bit more polite? BTW non of your statements regarding their coding competence truly contradicts mine.



According to VGChartz, they have already sold 150,000 copies for its second week on the market in North America alone. Lair hasn't even been released in Europe yet (AFAIK, nor for the rest of the World), what do you mean by stating Lair failed? At what exactly?

There are many people who do like Lair and think Lair is not difficult or bad to control at all, if you are referring to the mixed US reviews.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board?board.id=lair

ssj12 said: HappySqurriel said: ssj12 said: Developers still havent figured out how to use all 6 SPEs at the same time properly; how the hell is it maxed out? You're assuming that the 6 SPEs can be used at the same time for an extended period of time though ... Many if not most (existing) algorithms that are used in game engines are not well suited to being split into 6 or 7 seperate parts, and even those that are run into load balancing and concurrency issues which are (very) difficult to resolve; even if you resolve those issues you still have the problem of getting data into and out of your CPU and into memory at a rapid rate to take advantage of the CPU which means you suddnly are bottlenecked by your memory bandwith and bus speeds. The SPEs may never get used to a level to give the PS3 the performance you expect  The SPEs can be split into doing different tasks. 1 can do audio, 2 can do physics calculations, 1 can do dust particles, etc.

Actually, they can't ...

An SPE is not a threadable core meaning that it gets its 'work orders' from the main core on what it is supposed to be working on at any given time. This means that when doing animation two SPE may animate the Arms, two can animate the legs, one can animate the head, one can animate the body.

This is great when doing certain things (like animation or working with the scene graph in general) but when you're doing other tasks the SPEs sit there completely inactive doing nothing.

I could be wrong but I suspect that Sony would have been better off having a system with a dedicated physics processor and a single/dual core PowePC processor than the Cell ...

@ HappySqurriel

You can create software threads, multiple threads are held in a local store and the SPE switches between them when a thread stalls on memory access.

MikeB said: @ HappySqurriel An SPE is not a threadable core You can create software threads, multiple threads are held in a local store and the SPE switches between them when a thread stalls on memory access.

Then I suppose I had the incorrect information ...

Why is everyone arguing on this? As much fun as it is to poke fun at the PS3 and Factor 5 has done some amazing things but it's pretty obvious they're just making more excuses. If they pushed the PS3 as hard as it could go they did the best they could and it clearly wasn't their fault that the game had some of the various bugs. The PS3 should have been more powerful.

Diomedes1976 said: starcraft ...your crusade against sony is childish and boring ..give it up

 lol, that was diomedes lecturing someone on fanboyism! Oh the irony

Dodece said: I think it is poor form to call out a expert on the field when you have no education or even experience within the field they are discussing. They know what they are talking about while you do not. Further more Factor 5 has a track record that speaks for itself when it comes to hardware usage. I think everyone needs to keep an open mind.

 nobody is denying what factor 5 ACTUALLY SAID. That they had 1080p, 7.1, sixaxis, etc.........what people ARE debating and calling out is that whomever wrote thi article took that statement of merely saying "Look we have 25gb of data, 1080p graphics, motion control, 7.1 uncompressed audio" And extrapolated that into "Factor 5 says they have maxed out the PS3"

Its not questioning Factor 5, people are questioning the faulty "summary"......this is what this place does, people bitch out each other, name call and get into huge arguments over a phantom quote. It's par for the course here, apparently. There is no quote, on the record comment or anything CLOSE to Factor 5 claiming they have maxed out the PS3, we have an article with actual factor 5 quotes that say nothing resembling that and an idiot authors interperatation and alas, we have a Sony FUD thread about how the system has already reached its pinnacle.

Throwing all common sense and logic out the window we have certain folks, they and we all know who they are, here to tell us that this quote (which doesnt exist) is true because its factor 5....all the while ignoring that there ARE better looking games out right now on this system (heavenly sword) There ARE better looking games still in development (Killzone and MGS) Yet this wouldnt aid them in taunting or playing devils advocate to all us PS3 owners or wel wishers.

They would rather believe (in a quote that doesnt even exist, need i remind you) that less than 1 year on the market, one of the most complex media devices ever created, let alone gaming system has been tapped to its full extent. These SAME people (ill reiterate again, folks, this quote doesnt exist) Would also BASH Factor 5 for claiming over and over "This isnt possible on any other sytem" Saying "hey look at Gears, dont tell me that this isnt possible"  Because they couldnt believe the PS3 couldhave something they couldnt, they called Factor 5 idiots and said they were lazy programmers for saying they couldnt recreate something lik Lair (while in development) on another system......NOW flash forward and we have everyone singing Factor 5's praises here because they said (but didnt actually say mind you, the quote doesnt exist) the PS3 has reache dits pinnacle.....NOW allof a suddon Factor 5 knows EXACTLY what theyre talking about, they are gods gift to programming because it fits this places anti Sony, PS brand agenda.

And to sum everything up, Factor 5 never said the PS3 was tapped to its full extent, my rants over.