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Forums - General - Russia: Waterboarding is for sissies

TheRealMafoo said:
Tyrannical said:

The Russians got useful information out of their prisoners, and that information probably saved a lot of Russian lives.

Makes things a bit more morally ambiguous I think.

 

Sorry dude, but there is a line that should not be crossed. What the Russians did definitely crossed that line.

I don't think poring water on someone's face crosses that line however. Others disagree.

I mean if it's torture, why do we do it to our own special ops during training?

 

So they can withstand the torture if captured...?

 



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Tyrannical said:
wfz said:

 

There must have been a less radical way of extracting information from a 13 year old girl than raping her..... You think she could have been a suicide bomber?

 

I'm going to say that I think a lot of responses in this thread are poorly grasping straws and misinformation, but I can't help but think there's an more ethical way to get information from a 13 year old girl than raping her. What did she do, anyways? I'm curious, I didn't read through the post that explained it.

 

 You must not have read it right.

The Chechen rebels videotaped themselves torturing and raping a 12 year old Russian girl for kicks.

 

 

Holy shit, that changes everything. My bad!



Tyranical, what you told me is that the Russians tortured and killed rebels from a tape raping a 13-year-old-girl. I fully support and endorse that.

I however do not support people being tortured unless they have a reason to be tortured.

You may want to give me other examples, because this one is working more towards my point that yours.



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vlad321 said:
Tyranical, what you told me is that the Russians tortured and killed rebels from a tape raping a 13-year-old-girl. I fully support and endorse that.

I however do not support people being tortured unless they have a reason to be tortured.

You may want to give me other examples, because this one is working more towards my point that yours.

 

 

Well, you can read the original article from the first post.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

antfromtashkent said:
highwaystar101 said:
antfromtashkent said:
highwaystar101 said:
antfromtashkent said:
highwaystar101 said:
This isn't a victory in any way for pro waterboarders I want to make that clear.

But basically Russia are a horrible country, they have extremely bad human rights ethics and their torturing needs to stop. As well as all torture, but let's fry the big fish first.

But I'm going to say something along the lines of what Akuma said, but in a different context.

Saying you are good on human rights because you are better than russia is like saying Hitler was a loveable friendly character because he killed less people than Stalin. It's just not true no matter which way you put it.

Waterboarding is still torture

 

what ta hell? have u ever lived in russia?

No, but it's not exactly a secret that Russia used to do some extremely dodgy things up until only a few years back.

 

yes ppl r trying to survive there .... but they still love their country.... i dont care where youre from that dosent give you the right to say things like that if you dont have the slightest idea and you havent experienced it first hand...

 

 

jeez, I'm not knocking it, i'm sure Russians are lovely people, I know a few and they are very pleasent.

What I am knocking is the shit the government have done in the past. I mean

you try to deny that Stalins forced famine killed 7,000,000 people

you try to deny that in 1929 5,000 of Ukraines best scientists and scholors were not sent to prison camps to be tortured,

you try to dent that Stalin killed 23,000,000 people.

you try to deny that they have never tortured people.

Here is a link with the top ten worst Russian torture methods... It's pretty sick

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/most-horrific-russian-torture-devices/8850

 

How dare you say that none of this has happened, when it is notorius for happening!!!!!

 

I dint say none of that happends.... Your generization makes me mad though... choose your words more carefully

"But basically Russia are a horrible country, they have extremely bad human rights ethics"

 

His comment was dodgey since he indicted the entire country and not just the government.  But the Russian government is pretty bad.

In some places it's human rights are ranked below the middle east!

http://humanrightshouse.org/Articles/9574.html

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/7eb8a04519db9206db978db57c5930e1.htm

http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/russian-federation/page.do?id=1011228

 



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Why is the US the only country that ever gets any criticism for their actions while these Russian animals torture gleefully and receive little condemnation from the outside world for doing so?



txrattlesnake said:
Why is the US the only country that ever gets any criticism for their actions while these Russian animals torture gleefully and receive little condemnation from the outside world for doing so?

 

That's over the top. Russia is completely pathetic when it comes to human rights but... it never has been. I mean from the Tsars to the commies, Russia has long been a powerful country built on people with weak rights....

By the way, the reason Russia pushed further into Georgia is to prevent Georgian incursions.. the same reason goaleys usually aren't right in front of the net but a little forward. The stories of Russians promoting rebels may/may not be true, don't take it for granted. The georgian army was shelling towns..killing civilians.... And the Russians, whatever their motives, and im sure they were self-interest, put a stop to the chaos fast.



 

 

im_sneaky said:
txrattlesnake said:
Why is the US the only country that ever gets any criticism for their actions while these Russian animals torture gleefully and receive little condemnation from the outside world for doing so?

 

That's over the top. Russia is completely pathetic when it comes to human rights but... it never has been. I mean from the Tsars to the commies, Russia has long been a powerful country built on people with weak rights....

By the way, the reason Russia pushed further into Georgia is to prevent Georgian incursions.. the same reason goaleys usually aren't right in front of the net but a little forward. The stories of Russians promoting rebels may/may not be true, don't take it for granted. The georgian army was shelling towns..killing civilians.... And the Russians, whatever their motives, and im sure they were self-interest, put a stop to the chaos fast.

     Still, you turn on any news channel, and you don't hear criticism of the Russians for conducting medieval type torture on captives or of the chinese winning the gold medal in women's gymnastics with under age atheletes, but the US gives someone a bit too much water or humiliates prisoners just a bit by posing a female soldier with some prisoners in some dominatrix like poses, and all you hear from several other nations is the US is so evil.

 



Rath said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Tyrannical said:

The Russians got useful information out of their prisoners, and that information probably saved a lot of Russian lives.

Makes things a bit more morally ambiguous I think.

 

Sorry dude, but there is a line that should not be crossed. What the Russians did definitely crossed that line.

I don't think poring water on someone's face crosses that line however. Others disagree.

I mean if it's torture, why do we do it to our own special ops during training?

 

So they can withstand the torture if captured...?

 

Why don't we break there bones, or beat the hell out of them then?

 



txrattlesnake said:
im_sneaky said:
txrattlesnake said:
Why is the US the only country that ever gets any criticism for their actions while these Russian animals torture gleefully and receive little condemnation from the outside world for doing so?

 

That's over the top. Russia is completely pathetic when it comes to human rights but... it never has been. I mean from the Tsars to the commies, Russia has long been a powerful country built on people with weak rights....

By the way, the reason Russia pushed further into Georgia is to prevent Georgian incursions.. the same reason goaleys usually aren't right in front of the net but a little forward. The stories of Russians promoting rebels may/may not be true, don't take it for granted. The georgian army was shelling towns..killing civilians.... And the Russians, whatever their motives, and im sure they were self-interest, put a stop to the chaos fast.

     Still, you turn on any news channel, and you don't hear criticism of the Russians for conducting medieval type torture on captives or of the chinese winning the gold medal in women's gymnastics with under age atheletes, but the US gives someone a bit too much water or humiliates prisoners just a bit by posing a female soldier with some prisoners in some dominatrix like poses, and all you hear from several other nations is the US is so evil.

 

 

You wanna know why? Because no other country poses as being so valiant. When have you ever heard Russia deride any torture or anything like that, or even give the pretense they are so equal? What about China? Now, think of how many times people in the US have acted high and mighty about these issues. Baically you all are hipocrites, either stop acting all high and mighty, or don't whine and bitch about it when YOUR own standard is applied to you by others.



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