The US was doing just fine before we opened up to non-european immigartion.

@ Kasz and vlad

While it must be said that immigrants have fueled the US with lots of citizens that go on to give much back to the country, the trend to go to america is somewhat fading right now, at least in Poland.

Among students in Poland that took IB during high school, not many decided to go to US universities (this is in the IB association statistics for the past 3-4 years) and rather gear towards France, England and Canada.

Why? Personaly i think that's because there are other places with better opportunities right now than the US. The middle east is one such place, China is the second, Middle Europe is right now the only part of the UE that will probably boast a big GPD growth (3%) during the crisis compared to the 0's and negatives that others might post.

I'm still not even seeing how your quantify intellegence.

Beleive it or not... IQ actually correlates better with reasoning skills then education.

The MANY different kinds of education is the second largest.  This I already knew.  However there are many levels of schooling tied with it and many factors.

Why is non-European legal immigration any different from European legal immigration?

It's a very good question.  I mean i believe when it comes to IQ the highest IQ among immigrants is Indian... with somethign crazy like 117.

Maybe... though isn't it just a lot easier to get into French and English universitys though?  I mean if your going for the best education.  The US is still your best shot. 

My point though generally is that "intellegence" is a fairly made up stat.

It really is based on how you want to measure it.

For example Vlad was using college educations.  IQ as flawed as it is... is actually a better indicator of "intellegent" thinking despite the testing methods bieng iffy.  There are plenty of geniuses with little higher learning.

In reality there are many many ways to cultivate "intellegence" and also many different kinds of intellegence.

Inteligence isn't quantifyable, you only display it when you are learning and applying what you have learned. I don't know what the fuck the IQ test measure, but it sure as fuck isn't intelligence. If someone can gain 35 intelligence, from a well above average IQ to a fucking genius then the test is absolutely useless. In fact the ONLY reason the IQ test exists is to segregate black and white back in WWI. Intelligence is not something one gains or loses, ever.

However to aswer your question, intelligence is useless itself without any wisdom, and if you aren't educated it doesn't matter if you are the most intelligent person on earth, you are still just a fcuking idiot. It all comes down to knowledge, it just so happens knowledge is more easily gained and far better at applied when someone is intelligent.

1) The IQ test measures problem solving abilties.

This is their definition of Intellegence.  How well you can solve problems that involve critical thinking.

People can score better on IQ tests overtime because in studying for the IQ tests they improve their critical thinking skills... or at least the critical thinking methods... better critical problem solving skills would suggest you would learn quicker then the average person.

Also no.  IQ tests don't exist for segregation purposes.  That's ridiculious.  IQ tests were developed to identify children with learning disabilties.   IQ tests had often been co-opted by people who favored eugenics.  But this wasn't because they had a strict desire to segregate people by race.  Quite the opposite they wanted to get rid of all "stupid" people.

They were excited "geniuses" who thought they had a tool to measure human potential and would be able to craft the wolrd into a better place.  Misguided as it was... they weren't doing it to be racist.

They are around to test critical thinking skills and general learning abiltiy for placement in learning and sometimes even methods.  As people with very high IQs tend to find themselves stifled in the traditional school approach.

2)The fact that you seem to claim that intellegence is something you neither gain or lose... would go against your attempts at proof that the average immigrant is smarter then your average natural citizen.  One could say it's more likely they were put in a situation that made it more likely for them to suceed.

Additionally there are plenty of people who weren't educated classically on higher levels and yet are definitly not people others would consider "Idiots".

People like Bill Gates and Chris Langan come to mind.

The traditional school system tends to work well for most people but not all.  Additionally not all people are given the role to succeed.  Not just in quality of school but in quality of family, support, and any number of other advantages.

Also amusingly by the way... "you can't increase your intellegence" was exactly the same things those psychologists who pushed the IQ test said...

There is nothing to suggest one can't improve their intellegence.

In fact, the opposite seems more likely.

1) Actually, how fast one goes up the IQ ladder would be a measure of intelligence, since intelligence isn't critical thinking, it's the ability to absorb, understand, and apply knowledge. That's also quite static. It's also the very reason the IQ people are wrong, if intelligence is static why the fuck can IQ their scores get better? You can train memory, you can work hard, but you cannot improve your intellect.

Also you are right, however the first widespred use was during the 1913/14 and so on to deport immigrants and later segregate the Army during WWI.

2)No they weren't educated, however they obviously had a specific knowledge. For instance, fonts came from Jobs sitting in a caligraphy class. Intelligent yes, but if he hadn't sat in that class he wouldnt have come up with the idea. As for immigrants, that's the whole point, they are better educated and overall smarter (wisdom+intelligence) than your average american. Mostly because they wouldn't have been allowed in from Europe if they weren't exceptional.