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Forums - General - Russia: Waterboarding is for sissies

Rath on 29 April 2009
Timmah! said:
akuma587 said:
Tell that to the guy who got waterboarded 186 times, to the people who wrote the Army Field Manual, and to Congress who passed the federal laws against torture.

You could also tell that to the Framers of the Constitution.

 

Get your facts straight. He was waterboarded only a few times, they poured water on him a total of 186 times TOTAL during the few waterboarding sessions. Nice try, though.

 

EDIT: And by the way, the guy they squirted in the face with water 186 times was Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the admitted (and proud) mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. He is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians. If you have a problem with them squirting him in the face with water after what he did, you are truly out of your freaking mind.

Firstly squirting in the face with water is a massive euphism for waterboarding. Its simulated drowning, not being squirted with a super-soaker. Also the reports I have read have suggest 183 seperate times he was waterboarded in a month, an average of around six times per day.

And I'm against all torture no matter who it is against, there is a reason for things such as the courts, the constitution and human rights.

 



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akuma587 on 29 April 2009
Timmah! said:
akuma587 said:
Tell that to the guy who got waterboarded 186 times, to the people who wrote the Army Field Manual, and to Congress who passed the federal laws against torture.

You could also tell that to the Framers of the Constitution.

 

Get your facts straight. He was waterboarded only a few times, they poured water on him a total of 186 times TOTAL during the few waterboarding sessions. Nice try, though.

 

EDIT: And by the way, the guy they squirted in the face with water 186 times was Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the admitted (and proud) mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. He is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians. If you have a problem with them squirting him in the face with water after what he did, you are truly out of your freaking mind.

Because that is what America is about, getting revenge.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Timmah! on 29 April 2009
akuma587 said:
Timmah! said:
akuma587 said:
Tell that to the guy who got waterboarded 186 times, to the people who wrote the Army Field Manual, and to Congress who passed the federal laws against torture.

You could also tell that to the Framers of the Constitution.

 

Get your facts straight. He was waterboarded only a few times, they poured water on him a total of 186 times TOTAL during the few waterboarding sessions. Nice try, though.

 

EDIT: And by the way, the guy they squirted in the face with water 186 times was Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the admitted (and proud) mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. He is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians. If you have a problem with them squirting him in the face with water after what he did, you are truly out of your freaking mind.

Because that is what America is about, getting revenge.

 

NO, not revenge, but if that interrogation method got information out of him that helped protect us, I'm all for it.



pakidan101 on 29 April 2009

If the ideals of freedom, liberty and justice can be thrown away so easily when faced with a problem....then those ideals were never the principles of America nor the principles of those who support torture for protection.


They were just slogans to put on a bumper sticker for your car.



Explanation of sig:

I am a Pakistani.....my name is Dan....how hard is that? (Don't ask about the 101...apparantely there are more of me out there....)

ctk495 on 29 April 2009

Meh it´s just Russia the Soviet Union was much cooler.



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akuma587 on 29 April 2009
pakidan101 said:
If the ideals of freedom, liberty and justice can be thrown away so easily when faced with a problem....then those ideals were never the principles of America nor the principles of those who support torture for protection.


They were just slogans to put on a bumper sticker for your car.

Could not have said it better myself.  You can't defend America or Americans if you throw away the Constitution in the process.  There's nothing left to defend.  A country is its Constitution.  Sometimes that means making hard choices that could even be dangerous.

And also, please, Timmah, point to the information we obtained from this guy that saved anyone's life.  And don't point to anything about the L.A. Tower, as that information was obtained before these "enhanced interrogation techniques" were authorized.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

elprincipe on 29 April 2009
vlad321 said:
elprincipe said:
highwaystar101 said:
Tyrannical said:
akuma587 said:

You could also tell that to the Framers of the Constitution.

 

I wonder what the framers of the constitution would do about foreign Islamic millitants attacking US civilians and assets?

If only there were things written in history books that would give you this kind of incite.

 

Hmm, I wonder what they would say about the incredible amount of anti-Islamic propaganda promoted Bush, Murdoch and whoever else too too.

That type of arguement goes on forever.

What anti-Islamic propaganda, pray tell, was promoted by Bush?  I'd be very interested to know.  Please provide reputable links.  I don't know (or care) about Murdoch.

 

 

Didn't he set us out on, and I quote, "a crusade?"

That's the best you've got, that he said the word "crusade"?  Cry me a river.  In the U.S. at least, "crusade," regardless of its origins, is not seen as an "anti-Islamic" word at all.  Crusade does not refer to anything anti-Muslim.  Sure, it was a poor choice of words, but "anti-Islamic propaganda"?  Please, spare me.  You're going to have to do better, or someone else will have to do better.  You can't, because what was claimed is entirely untrue, however much you may dislike/disagree with Bush.

 



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pearljammer on 29 April 2009
txrattlesnake said:
pearljammer said:
txrattlesnake said:
pearljammer said:
txrattlesnake said:

      Hey, college boy, I know a fun way for you to spend your afternoon.  Go to your nearest blue-collar or redneck bar, and start spouting your dislike for America in your best European accent, and then I predict you'll be having a good old time.

European accent? What the hell is that?

 

 it is an accent that if you sat down in a bar in any of the 50 us states and started talking to people, then most people that heard it would think you were from europe or australia or england. - That's hardly all of Europe and, hell, Australia isn't in the same continent.

Ah, I guess you mean an English accent?

Simple overanalysis on my part.

Have you ever watched Athenewins videos on youtube?  He's from Belguim and has a European accent.   Same with many Germans when they speak English and I would assume anybody else living on the continent.  European accents generally do sound more like English accents to most people in the US than they sound like Brooklyn or US Southern accents.

I would guess you are in the minority there. I have not met anybody who ever confused a German speaking English for having an English accent. There is no European accent! To claim otherwise is simply ridiculous. I cannot help but think this is simply an -us versus them- thing.

Secondly, I would not say that people from Brooklyn nor the Southern U.S. have accents, but rather have different dialects (less to do with pronunciation which is still a factor, more to do with vocabulary and grammar). Of course, I could be way off base on this. If there are any linguists around, feel free to correct anything I may have gotten wrong.

Anyhow, I dont have much to add to the topic. pakidan101 pretty much covered what my feeling on the matter, more or less.



pakidan101 on 29 April 2009
elprincipe said:
vlad321 said:
elprincipe said:
highwaystar101 said:
Tyrannical said:
akuma587 said:

You could also tell that to the Framers of the Constitution.

 

I wonder what the framers of the constitution would do about foreign Islamic millitants attacking US civilians and assets?

If only there were things written in history books that would give you this kind of incite.

 

Hmm, I wonder what they would say about the incredible amount of anti-Islamic propaganda promoted Bush, Murdoch and whoever else too too.

That type of arguement goes on forever.

What anti-Islamic propaganda, pray tell, was promoted by Bush?  I'd be very interested to know.  Please provide reputable links.  I don't know (or care) about Murdoch.

 

 

Didn't he set us out on, and I quote, "a crusade?"

That's the best you've got, that he said the word "crusade"?  Cry me a river.  In the U.S. at least, "crusade," regardless of its origins, is not seen as an "anti-Islamic" word at all.  Crusade does not refer to anything anti-Muslim.  Sure, it was a poor choice of words, but "anti-Islamic propaganda"?  Please, spare me.  You're going to have to do better, or someone else will have to do better.  You can't, because what was claimed is entirely untrue, however much you may dislike/disagree with Bush.

 

 

What Bush essentially did was take advantage of the already pre-existing Islamic-phobia Christians had since the creation and spread of Islam. Instead of using the Crusades as evidence (seeing that it was outdated and non-effective), just take the 1980's as evidence.

 

Iran holding the US troops as hostages, placing Saddam Hussein as the leader of Iraq and letting him fight Iran for the 8 year war, the Gulf War, the 1993 bombing...add in all of that and Bush just had to say "We are going to get ya" and there ya go!



Explanation of sig:

I am a Pakistani.....my name is Dan....how hard is that? (Don't ask about the 101...apparantely there are more of me out there....)

Tyrannical on 29 April 2009
highwaystar101 said:

But you get the odd American who comes along and just basically says "Yeah we're the best country no question. If it wasn't for us the rest of the world would be speaking German, we are the strongest most morally perfect nation ever",

 

 Sprechen Sie Deutsches?

You're welcome.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire