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Forums - General - Keith Olbermann Offers to Pay Hannity To Be Waterboarded

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We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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wow, no wonder most of the world really feels disgusted with the US. Waterboarding not torture? What tree did you fall off from squirrel?? And the fact that some of you are willing to accept these kind of actions just to be "safe" is really disturbing.

But i guess this conformism is to be expected when you're a citizen of "the greates country in the world" right? Pathetic.



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yanamaster said:
wow, no wonder most of the world really feels disgusted with the US. Waterboarding not torture? What tree did you fall off from squirrel?? And the fact that some of you are willing to accept these kind of actions just to be "safe" is really disturbing.

But i guess this conformism is to be expected when you're a citizen of "the greates country in the world" right? Pathetic.

 

First off, I'm not an American ...

Now, I've had the sensation of drowning several times in my life because I spent a lot of time as the lake as a child, wasn't a particularly great swimmer and did some very stupid things. Its not really painful, its not really tramatic, and there are no long term negative side effects. Part of the reason why the special ops are waterboarded is that the experience (on the whole) isn't that bad, but people who have not experienced the sensation of drowning before are (likely) going to panic; and after you have had it done to you a couple of times you're not going to panic, and you just have to survive a sensation somewhat worse than the worst cold you've had for a little while. You can't say the same thing about actions like breaking someone's tumb with a hammer or pulling out their finger nails (which are clearly torture), so I think it falls short of classical definitions of torture.

Do I think it is something they should be doing? No, the fact that they're trying to "Force" information out of a prisoner against their will puts their actions into a dangerous grey area ...

The other actions that I have mentioned which others have equated to torture I'm fully willing to give the millitary full rights to perform these actions.



I just don't understand how people think we come out ahead doing things like this. We completely lose our moral high ground and feed the fuel that creates terrorism in the first place. We encourage people in the Middle East to think we are indifferent imperialists who at the end of the day care nothing about human rights and are no better than a petty dictator.

From a military standpoint, the benefits in no way shape or form outweigh the costs.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:
I just don't understand how people think we come out ahead doing things like this. We completely lose our moral high ground and feed the fuel that creates terrorism in the first place. We encourage people in the Middle East to think we are indifferent imperialists who at the end of the day care nothing about human rights and are no better than a petty dictator.

From a military standpoint, the benefits in no way shape or form outweigh the costs.

 

Right, we are the bad guys.

Forget all the information that has saved peoples lives through waterboarding. We hurt there feelings, and thats far more important.

One day yelling at your kids is going to be torture.



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akuma587 said:
I just don't understand how people think we come out ahead doing things like this. We completely lose our moral high ground and feed the fuel that creates terrorism in the first place. We encourage people in the Middle East to think we are indifferent imperialists who at the end of the day care nothing about human rights and are no better than a petty dictator.

From a military standpoint, the benefits in no way shape or form outweigh the costs.

So we must protect our "Moral High Ground" to protect our image in countries with drastically different morals than us? Does that mean that we should ban gay marriage, start stoning homosexuals, and allow husbands to rape their wives?

For the most part the reason why "Americans" (more realistically this would be "Westerners") are hated throughout the middle east is due to indoctrination and propaganda. No matter what the "Americans" do, nothing is going to stop clerics in the middle of Afghanistan or Iran from talking about how evil they are and how they need to be destroyed because this hatrid is exactly how these people are controlled.

 



HappySqurriel said:
akuma587 said:
I just don't understand how people think we come out ahead doing things like this. We completely lose our moral high ground and feed the fuel that creates terrorism in the first place. We encourage people in the Middle East to think we are indifferent imperialists who at the end of the day care nothing about human rights and are no better than a petty dictator.

From a military standpoint, the benefits in no way shape or form outweigh the costs.

So we must protect our "Moral High Ground" to protect our image in countries with drastically different morals than us? Does that mean that we should ban gay marriage, start stoning homosexuals, and allow husbands to rape their wives?

For the most part the reason why "Americans" (more realistically this would be "Westerners") are hated throughout the middle east is due to indoctrination and propaganda. No matter what the "Americans" do, nothing is going to stop clerics in the middle of Afghanistan or Iran from talking about how evil they are and how they need to be destroyed because this hatrid is exactly how these people are controlled.

 

This is part of the problem.  You are suggesting that everyone in the Middle East can be brainwashed through indoctrination and propaganda.  Yes, there is a percentage of the Muslim population who will hate America no matter what.  But the rest are regular people who can be persuaded by either side.  When America does questionable things like this, it makes them more easily persuaded to join the side of extremism.

Why should we even bother if they are so dangerous and just not wholesale exterminate the Muslim people?

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
I just don't understand how people think we come out ahead doing things like this. We completely lose our moral high ground and feed the fuel that creates terrorism in the first place. We encourage people in the Middle East to think we are indifferent imperialists who at the end of the day care nothing about human rights and are no better than a petty dictator.

From a military standpoint, the benefits in no way shape or form outweigh the costs.

 

Right, we are the bad guys.

Forget all the information that has saved peoples lives through waterboarding. We hurt there feelings, and thats far more important.

One day yelling at your kids is going to be torture.

So what would it take for us to be the bad guy?

What information have we obtained that has saved people's lives through waterboarding?  I would love for you to point to specific information that has saved people's lives. 

And you didn't even address the fact that we may have endangered more people's lives and encouraged more terrorists attacks by waterboarding in the first place.  This is one of the most effective ways to fuel terrorists propaganda, by giving them actual evidence that America's motives and moral resolve are highly questionable.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
I just don't understand how people think we come out ahead doing things like this. We completely lose our moral high ground and feed the fuel that creates terrorism in the first place. We encourage people in the Middle East to think we are indifferent imperialists who at the end of the day care nothing about human rights and are no better than a petty dictator.

From a military standpoint, the benefits in no way shape or form outweigh the costs.

 

Right, we are the bad guys.

Forget all the information that has saved peoples lives through waterboarding. We hurt there feelings, and thats far more important.

One day yelling at your kids is going to be torture.

So what would it take for us to be the bad guy?

What information have we obtained that has saved people's lives through waterboarding?  I would love for you to point to specific information that has saved people's lives. 

And you didn't even address the fact that we may have endangered more people's lives and encouraged more terrorists attacks by waterboarding in the first place.  This is one of the most effective ways to fuel terrorists propaganda, by giving them actual evidence that America's motives and moral resolve are highly questionable.

 

http://www.poligazette.com/2009/04/23/did-waterboarding-pay-off/

And what would it take? Breaking there fingers, burning them, damaging them in any way.

Poring water over the face of someone who would cut your head off with a hack saw if given the chance, does not make us the bad guy.

And if it kills more people in the long run, so be it. There are things worth fighting for Akuma. Not backing down to these kinds of people, is one of them.



Additionally, in these countries, common forms of interrogation are breaking of bones, beatings, removal of limbs. Do you really think the citizens of those countries are going to look at waterboarding and think they must kill Americans?

There are 100's of reasons they want to kill us. Waterboarding is not one of them.