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Forums - Sony - Jak and Daxter = Failure

infamous8 on 25 April 2009
DiplomaticImmunity said:
you obviously have not played their games

I've played the games, but i'm talking about it being a failure STRICTLY SALES WISE.

 



"I don't have time to play video games anymore, but if I did, I would definitely choose the PlayStation 3 instead of the 360" - President Barack Obama

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Hapimeses on 25 April 2009
infamous8 said:
Hapimeses said:
infamous8 said:
Hapimeses said:
Jak and Daxter games a failure? Really? Do you believe that?

There were awesome games. They sold loads. They made big profits. What more do people need?

 

They made SMALL profits. Don't forget how much marketing and advertising went into those games.

 

And when one of your BEST DEVELOPERS is just making small profits, it's a failure.

 

 

Do you have any proof of that at all? From what I remember at the time, the games were widely held to be enormously successful and profitable. I'll happily accept your claims if you have an proof of them.

Perhaps not "small" profits...but rather Smaller profits than they expected when creating the series.

Common sense my man. If they were such an enormous success, Jak 4 wouldve come out in 2007 (when Uncharted did), and you'd be seeing Jak 5 at E3 this year.

 

 

So, no proof, I thought not. Further, your 'smaller' profit claim is equally unfounded; it's just your guess -- you are making suppositions that are not necessarily true, you just think they may be. Further, your 'common sense' argument also isn't valid, as we probably wouldn't have PS3 Ratchet and Clank if it was. Ratchet and Jak were always very close on sales, even they ended up going in different directions.

Perhaps the devs were just looking for a change of direction? I know I would be.

 



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Hapimeses on 25 April 2009
infamous8 said:
rafichamp said:
Also, why didnt suckerpunch make a new slycooper game for ps3 instead of making infamous, because they are trying to expand the amount of gaming series they have, just like Kojima, they want to make more games, not just MGS games.

Because the Sly Cooper games did not SELL much either.

The first one barely cracked 1 million, and to my knowledge, both sequels failed to reach even 1 million.

 

inFAMOUS has potential to sell 3x the amount of the best selling Sly game.

 

 

 

This, however, I pretty much agree with.

That said, if you look at these three devs, they are tackling very different genres with their PS3 games, allowing Sony to accurately claim their machine has a variety of game types rather than just platformers. I.e.: the choices of games programmed may just be a strategic choice, and have nothing to do with previous games being profitable or not.



Hapimeses.com

 

infamous8 on 25 April 2009
Hapimeses said:
infamous8 said:
Hapimeses said:
infamous8 said:
Hapimeses said:
Jak and Daxter games a failure? Really? Do you believe that?

There were awesome games. They sold loads. They made big profits. What more do people need?

 

They made SMALL profits. Don't forget how much marketing and advertising went into those games.

 

And when one of your BEST DEVELOPERS is just making small profits, it's a failure.

 

 

Do you have any proof of that at all? From what I remember at the time, the games were widely held to be enormously successful and profitable. I'll happily accept your claims if you have an proof of them.

Perhaps not "small" profits...but rather Smaller profits than they expected when creating the series.

Common sense my man. If they were such an enormous success, Jak 4 wouldve come out in 2007 (when Uncharted did), and you'd be seeing Jak 5 at E3 this year.

 

 

So, no proof, I thought not. Further, your 'smaller' profit claim is equally unfounded; it's just your guess -- you are making suppositions that are not necessarily true, you just think they may be. Further, your 'common sense' argument also isn't valid, as we probably wouldn't have PS3 Ratchet and Clank if it was. Ratchet and Jak were always very close on sales, even they ended up going in different directions.

Perhaps the devs were just looking for a change of direction? I know I would be.

 

Insomniac didn't fall off nearly as bad as Naughty Dog did, when it comes to sales.

The Spyro games were in the 3.5million range. The Ratchet games were in the 1.5-2.5 million range.

That's a much smaller difference than the 7million to 1.7 million difference that Naughty Dog had with Crash and Jak.

 



"I don't have time to play video games anymore, but if I did, I would definitely choose the PlayStation 3 instead of the 360" - President Barack Obama

Majin-Tenshinhan on 25 April 2009
jammy2211 said:
No franchise that eclipses a million units sold is a failure.

I think all that happend is Naughty Dog decided to do Uncharted, and then Jak and Dexter (What with the whole "Lost Frontier" name being thrown around) but then Uncharted was a huge success, so Sony asked them to do the sequel to that first.

We have got a new Jak and Dexter announced for PS2 (And PSP?), and I'd imagine that's where Naughty Dog will go next after Uncharted 2.

Shenmue would like a word with you.



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Aj_habfan on 25 April 2009

They failed because they didn't sell as much as Crash? That's a high standard to live up to. I think they sold just fine - The only problem was that it didn't really distinguish itself from Ratchet & Clank, and each franchise pumped out a copy every year. I think if they took a year between games, gamers might be more willing to pick up the sequel.

If they failed, why do you want them to bring the series back? You think it will magically sell as much as Crash because it's on the PS3?



Majin-Tenshinhan on 25 April 2009

Oh, and just to make a post that's actually on topic ... I think Jak and Daxter weren't failures, but they weren't as big of a success as Sony wanted them to be, which is why they're branching off from them now.



infamous8 on 25 April 2009
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
jammy2211 said:
No franchise that eclipses a million units sold is a failure.

I think all that happend is Naughty Dog decided to do Uncharted, and then Jak and Dexter (What with the whole "Lost Frontier" name being thrown around) but then Uncharted was a huge success, so Sony asked them to do the sequel to that first.

We have got a new Jak and Dexter announced for PS2 (And PSP?), and I'd imagine that's where Naughty Dog will go next after Uncharted 2.

Shenmue would like a word with you.

 

Exactly.

People seem to forget that a lot of MONEY and TIME are put into these games.

Therefore, if Sega's top developer was spending years of time and effort on one game (Shenmue) and it comes out to moderate sales that are much lower than they expected...then yes, it is a failure in terms of sales.

Same thing here with Naughty Dog. In terms of sales, They went from being SCEA's best, to just another studio. The turning point in their timeline? Starting the Jak series. Therefore, it was/always will be regarded as a failure.

 

 

 

 



"I don't have time to play video games anymore, but if I did, I would definitely choose the PlayStation 3 instead of the 360" - President Barack Obama

Hapimeses on 25 April 2009
Aj_habfan said:
They failed because they didn't sell as much as Crash? That's a high standard to live up to. I think they sold just fine - The only problem was that it didn't really distinguish itself from Ratchet & Clank, and each franchise pumped out a copy every year. I think if they took a year between games, gamers might be more willing to pick up the sequel.

If they failed, why do you want them to bring the series back? You think it will magically sell as much as Crash because it's on the PS3?

I don't think this is entirely fair either, especially as Jak and Daxter came first, and was a very different game to the Ratchet and Clank that came later. However, Jak2 was more Ratchet meets GTA, so it did lose its way a little, I've always thought. Still a great game, though.



Hapimeses.com

 

Majin-Tenshinhan on 25 April 2009
infamous8 said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
jammy2211 said:
No franchise that eclipses a million units sold is a failure.

I think all that happend is Naughty Dog decided to do Uncharted, and then Jak and Dexter (What with the whole "Lost Frontier" name being thrown around) but then Uncharted was a huge success, so Sony asked them to do the sequel to that first.

We have got a new Jak and Dexter announced for PS2 (And PSP?), and I'd imagine that's where Naughty Dog will go next after Uncharted 2.

Shenmue would like a word with you.

 

Exactly.

People seem to forget that a lot of MONEY and TIME are put into these games.

Therefore, if Sega's top developer was spending years of time and effort on one game (Shenmue) and it comes out to moderate sales that are much lower than they expected...then yes, it is a failure in terms of sales.

Same thing here with Naughty Dog. In terms of sales, They went from being SCEA's best, to just another studio. The turning point in their timeline? Starting the Jak series. Therefore, it was/always will be regarded as a failure.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily label it a failure, as much as a "fall from grace". Not saying the Jak-games are bad, I haven't played them, but despite the sales not being incredible, it was a different franchise than Crash Bandicoot. A lot of people don't know developers, just franchises. As I said in an earlier post, I don't think they were failures, but I think they didn't live up to Sony's expectations either. They were neither failure or success... They did fine, and brought in money, but not as much money as Sony had hoped. Of course, this is all pure speculation on my part.