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Forums - Gaming Discussion - My XBox 360 vs PS3 comparison (mostly technical)

MikeB on 16 September 2007
Lost tears of Kain said:

Yes i agree here Mike, and im not going to argue tech crap.

But i rarely see people bashing the ps3 on technica standpoint (except the blue ray trojan horse move), people mostly bash it for its price and games, which i guess, the price is from the technical standpoint

There is no doubt the ps3 is superior, just you stated almost EVERYTHING that the ps3 is superior, i would of liked to hear how maybe how the 360 has better this blah blah etc


Many XBox 360 fans do criticize the PS3 from a technical standpoint, sometimes fueled by Microsoft PR with claims Blu Ray is of no benefit to game developers or 1080p gaming wouldn´t be possible, etc.

With regard to games I already own more games than I have time to play currently, of my PS2 games I so far only finished Ape Escape 2 and God of War 1, I and my girlfriend earned a golden ducky in Super RubaDub, completed Resistance Fall of Man (still play online every now and then) and I´m in the top 100 of Super Stardust HD (very impressive game, visually especially stunning at 1080p but looks great on a PAL TV as well). People are already playing a Ratchet & Clank Future demo, that´s actually my most anticipated PS3 game for the year.

Hopefully these rumours are true for the coming holidays, however I would rather go for the 80 GB model (at least the 60GB HD was quite a bit faster than the 20 GB model, probably the 40 GB model would be without WiFi and card readers, IMO well worth the extra bucks if this would be so). I´ll be checking this thread again tomorrow.

  • $499.99 for the 80GB Playstation 3, currently $599.99
  • $399.99 for the 40GB Playstation 3, currently nonexistent

    • http://gamer.blorge.com/2007/09/15/more-evidence-sony-to-launch-399-40gb-playstation-3/

    Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

    PS3 vs 360 sales

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    Lost tears of Kain on 16 September 2007
    MikeB said:
    Lost tears of Kain said:

    Yes i agree here Mike, and im not going to argue tech crap.

    But i rarely see people bashing the ps3 on technica standpoint (except the blue ray trojan horse move), people mostly bash it for its price and games, which i guess, the price is from the technical standpoint

    There is no doubt the ps3 is superior, just you stated almost EVERYTHING that the ps3 is superior, i would of liked to hear how maybe how the 360 has better this blah blah etc


    Many XBox 360 fans do criticize the PS3 from a technical standpoint, sometimes fueled by Microsoft PR with claims Blu Ray is of no benefit to game developers or 1080p gaming wouldn´t be possible, etc.

    With regard to games I already own more games than I have time to play currently, of my PS2 games I so far only finished Ape Escape 2 and God of War 1, I and my girlfriend earned a golden ducky in Super RubaDub, completed Resistance Fall of Man (still play online every now and then) and I´m in the top 100 of Super Stardust HD (very impressive game, visually especially stunning at 1080p but looks great on a PAL TV as well). People are already playing a Ratchet & Clank Future demo, that´s actually my most anticipated PS3 game for the year.

    Hopefully these rumours are true for the coming holidays, however I would rather go for the 80 GB model (at least the 60GB HD was quite a bit faster than the 60 GB model, probably the 40 GB model would be without WiFi and card readers, IMO well worth the extra bucks if this would be so). I´ll be checking this thread again tomorrow.

  • $499.99 for the 80GB Playstation 3, currently $599.99
  • $399.99 for the 40GB Playstation 3, currently nonexistent

    • http://gamer.blorge.com/2007/09/15/more-evidence-sony-to-launch-399-40gb-playstation-3/

    I agree the ps3 is a fantastic deal with how advanced it is, but again it comes down to it wont be Unless blue ray wins, if not your out a player ~-~. BUt still with everything else, when you know the company is losing money on each sold you know its a good deal

     



                     With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration-Mike B   

    Proud supporter of all 3 console companys

    Proud owner of 360wii and DS/psp              

    Game trailers-Halo 3 only dissapointed the people who wanted to be dissapointed.

    Bet with Harvey Birdman that Lost Odyssey will sell more then Blue dragon did.
    Final-Fan on 16 September 2007

    I hope the formatting works. 

    MikeB said:
    @ fazz


    That's theoretical, the actual bandwidth that can be achieved AT MAX is 204GB/s.


    From the (in parts outdated) article:

    "Since each snooped address request can potentially transfer up to 128B, the theoretical peak data bandwidth on the EIB at 3.2GHz is 128Bx1.6GHz = 204.8GB/s. "

    Still the 300+ GB/s EIB bandwith I stated is correct. Compare bandwidth to a highway where wider highways would mean more bandwith. The data being transferred being cars. If this was a one way highway 204.8GB/s bandwidth would be 100% efficiency, however the Cell is a complex chip with multiple highways also connected to other chips like the RSX (which can use the XDR memory through the Cell). In the case of car traffic, you could pretty much be certain the highways have enough lanes to prevent traffic bottlenecks.

    So at least this points to the Cell not being bottlenecked in terms of available internal bandwidth (looking solely at the Cell's elements by themselves), that's the point I was trying to make with regard to the section of my post you are replying to.

    Here I see you making a "highway" analogy, but I don't see where you connect it to any facts in particular.  What brings you to the 300+ conclusion? 

    Obviously ignoring the 256GB/s of the eDRAm to the GPU


    It's 32 GB/s, take a look at the diagram in the original post.

    Isn't it true that, according to the 360's diagram, the GPU can give instructions to the logic center and it can work out the calculations at the 256GB/s rate, giving the data back to the GPU at the 32GB/s rate?  I am not an expert.  

    the bandwidth to the RAM is 22.4GB/s


    The bandwidth is shared with the CPU, like already pointed out in the original post. The PS3 has dedicated buses.

    From the 360's diagram it looks like the RAM must go through the GPU to the CPU (at the 10.8 read/10.8 write rate).  Is this correct?  If so, it's pretty ironic that fazz would point out the "weakness" of the XDR's need to go through the Cell to the RSX at a 20 read/15 write rate.  

    As to access the other 256MB of XDR the GPU must go through a 20GB/s read and 15GB/s write bandwidth to the Cell to have access to it (latency).


    For most stuff, the memory directly connected to the RSX will be used, but there is enough bandwidth to use the XDR memory as well. I've heard of developers using the XDR as additional texture memory as it not only increases texture memory it also increases texture bandwidth. The latency will increase but RSX this isn't a big problem for GPUs and RSX has bigger than usual caches anyway.

    I've also heard of developers writing compressed textures directly from the SPEs to the RSX, this bypasses memory altogether so so effectively reduces latency while increasing bandwidth.

    I don't need clarification here, although it would be interesting to hear more about this directly writing from the SPEs to the RSX.  



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    My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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    sieanr on 16 September 2007
    MikeB said:
    @ starcraft

    The other posts have already pointed out the many errors in your post, not to mention the lack of any credible sources to back your ideas.


    Well, I have heard IBM technical specialists and discussed topics with PS3 developers. What more credible source do you need, Bill Gates or John Carmack (of Doom can't be done Amiga, yet currently runs on much older Amigas than past PCs can run today, ever since the release of Doom's source code - fame)?

    I don't claim to know it all, but it's not as if I am a total noob regarding technology myself. Here a pic of me performing a tech demo for TV channel 3Sat:


    You're comparison between the RAM speed in the 360 and PS3 says differently

    (LOL E-PENIS)



    Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

    ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

    "Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

    selnor on 16 September 2007
    sieanr said:
    MikeB said:
    @ starcraft

    The other posts have already pointed out the many errors in your post, not to mention the lack of any credible sources to back your ideas.


    Well, I have heard IBM technical specialists and discussed topics with PS3 developers. What more credible source do you need, Bill Gates or John Carmack (of Doom can't be done Amiga, yet currently runs on much older Amigas than past PCs can run today, ever since the release of Doom's source code - fame)?

    I don't claim to know it all, but it's not as if I am a total noob regarding technology myself. Here a pic of me performing a tech demo for TV channel 3Sat:


    You're comparison between the RAM speed in the 360 and PS3 says differently

    (LOL E-PENIS)


    OMG.

     Those 3 people in the photo work for Sony.lol

    That explains the thread.

    The reason the price is high is Blu ray. Nothing else.

    Sony have a track record for over exageration, and under acheiving.

    EMOTION ENGINE? Toy Story graphics Sony said.

    OH how the blind are lead.

    Let the games do the talking over the next 5 years.

    People will be upset they put faith in PR talk.



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    selnor on 16 September 2007

    I will post this link one more time. yes it says 2005. But the specs are exactly the same as when both consoles launched. You need both sides of the arguement if you make a decent judgement.

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p2.html

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p3.html



    selnor on 16 September 2007

    This link explains the ram better than anything in this post so far, and how it's used in both consoles. also exactly how games are developed and what the SPE's can do. Its fact that they have a limit as to what they can do.



    Final-Fan on 16 September 2007
    selnor said:
    I will post this link one more time. yes it says 2005. But the specs are exactly the same as when both consoles launched. You need both sides of the arguement if you make a decent judgement.

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p2.html

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p3.html


    I took a chance that clicking these links wouldn't be a complete waste of my time, and what is the subtitle of the article?

    "With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?"

    Aside from the grammatical and spelling errors (yes, both, in that subtitle), this reveals that the entire article is based around Microsoft PR. What did you f---ing think that they were going to say? "Oh, yeah, I guess the PS3 blows us out of the water. I'll just be off to collect my severance pay now."



    Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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    My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

    "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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    I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

    selnor on 16 September 2007
    Final-Fan said:
    selnor said:
    I will post this link one more time. yes it says 2005. But the specs are exactly the same as when both consoles launched. You need both sides of the arguement if you make a decent judgement.

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p2.html

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p3.html


    I took a chance that clicking these links wouldn't be a complete waste of my time, and what is the subtitle of the article? 

    "With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?"

    Aside from the grammatical and spelling errors (yes, both, in that subtitle), this reveals that the entire article is based around Microsoft PR.  What did you fucking think that they were going to say?  "Oh, yeah, I guess the PS3 blows us out of the water.  I'll just be off to collect my severance pay now."  


    Love the fanboys. I said here it from both sides. Everything in the article makes technical sense. If you know about computing.



    Final-Fan on 16 September 2007
    selnor said:
    Final-Fan said:
    selnor said:
    I will post this link one more time. yes it says 2005. But the specs are exactly the same as when both consoles launched. You need both sides of the arguement if you make a decent judgement.

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p2.html

    http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p3.html


    I took a chance that clicking these links wouldn't be a complete waste of my time, and what is the subtitle of the article?

    "With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?"

    Aside from the grammatical and spelling errors (yes, both, in that subtitle), this reveals that the entire article is based around Microsoft PR. What did you f---ing think that they were going to say? "Oh, yeah, I guess the PS3 blows us out of the water. I'll just be off to collect my severance pay now."


    Love the fanboys. I said here it from both sides. Everything in the article makes technical sense. If you know about computing.


    I know enough to know that the article (1) redefined "cherry-picking one's data" and (2) didn't even have hard specs for the PS3 ("IF the RSX is like the 8800").

    [edit:  and if you're so hot for us to HEAR it from both sides, where's your link to Sony's numbers saying that the PS3 can break the 360's spine one-handed while turning wine into water?] 



    Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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    My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

    "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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    I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!