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Forums - PC - A History of Microsoft's AntiCompetitive Behavior

Mudface said:
Dianko said:
I really don't mind MS being attacked, but it's clear the ones doing the attack have an agenda when they only point out one thing. I rarely see Nintendo being attacked for their own anti-competitive behaviors in the past. And that's not even mentioning accusations against Sony of "labor and human rights violations" at their plants in developing nations. I mean, seriously, does anti-competitive behavior really warrant more scorn than fucking violations of human rights?

 

Why would people attack Sony and Nintendo in a thread about Microsoft's uncompetitive behaviour? For the record, all mega-corps like MS, Sony, Nintendo, Apple, etc etc have indulged in some reprehensible behaviour, but to say someone has an agenda for pointing out MS's failings is a bit daft.

 

Yes, in Thread # 5783458 attacking MS. Seriously, MS has been attacked on this forum hundreds of times with every conceiveble reasoning. There doesn't need to be a new one to point that out. We all know. MS has done bad things. I just find it weird that MS is constantly the lightning rod of attacks, where Sony and Nintendo are relatively free from it. Considering how often this happens on these forums, I believe that most attacks on MS are not about telling people what MS did, but more of a fanboy agenda to attack them. And honestly, the hypocrasy pisses me off too. They are some real crimes being commited by all 3 companies, crimes that are literally killing people (mostly indirectly, but there are always 'disappearences' of workers talking about starting a union in developing nations) that we would all be better off knowing. Concentrating on one company, and the crimes that are dealing with issues that don't do nearly as much harm with peoples lives, seems counterproductive to someone who is trying to enlighten us about what these companies are doing wrong.

 



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This is the PC forum, people are attacking Microsoft in this thread for their history of monopolistic, embrace-extend-extinguish behaviour in operating systems and other PC software. As far as I'm aware neither Sony nor Nintendo have done the same in the same area- if you know different then start a thread about them.

Personally, I couldn't give a toss about the pathetic console fanboy wars on here and elsewhere- it's just insecure teenage wankers desperate to validate their own purchases. I'm a web applications programmer and PC gamer and use Microsoft software exclusively day-in, day-out. I wouldn't touch anything from Sony with a bargepole after the rootkit fiasco, and I think Nintendo have been very lucky to get away with a gimmick and re-releasing the same old set of franchises yet again. Yet even I can see how bad Microsoft have been in the past and why it's necessary to keep an eye on them in the future.




for every thread like this ,is sold a PS3 IN THE WORLD,...go go go ''sony support ''we can do,...

 

 

''Halo reach''.. sell 7.m first week ,Believe¡¡¡¡¡¡

 

 

 

 

 

 



alephnull said:
arsenicazure said:
justinian said:
There is nothing wrong with the OP. MS fanboys get their hackles up the minute anything negative is said about MS. Blind love.

MS deserves to be where there are. There won't be there forever as all Empires eventually fall and sooner than most think. MS could be on skidrow faster than you may believe.

In the meantime they carry on as any company in that position would. Power corrupts.

As for charities I believe they can do more. A man with $1,000 to his name that gives $500 to charity is in my books a bigger man than one who gives $2billion out of $20billion.

 

You do realise that bill gates does more for charity that all those rich middle eastern sheikhs, presidents, governments and organisations right? Being worth 50 billion doesnt mean u have 50 billion cash in hand a lot of that money is stocks in hand/assets etc.. not LIQUIDITY.

I really cant question his philantrophic side, no matter how much i despise his business arrogance. How much does steve jobs give to charity every year?

 

Governments account for the vast majority financially of the things people would probably classify as charity. Those sheikhs provide the funding to build a lot of mosques and the citizens of many of those countries (not to be confused with the people who work there) are provided with nice fat stipends just for being born (and if it makes them less critical of the regimes so be it).

Much like the guilded age robber barons, Gate's and Buffet's charities are politically necessary. Their public images affect their financial risk, influence, and power significantly. As astute political players, both with carefully crafted images, I'm sure they are not oblivious of this fact.

 

ofcourse, the political milege that powerful individuals derive from philantrophy is invaluable. But Bill gates has little to do with subsaharan AIDS or malaria in the tropics. Mosques, temples and churches are inseperable part of society and have their place but they cant replace education, a bowl of rice and a roof over your head.

Considering that the middle east has 50% of the world oil reserves(wonder how many xxxtrillion dollars that is) I wonder how much these rich chador princes ACTUALLY donate to the rest of the world, especially developing countries.

 



Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

owner of : atari 2600, commodore 64, NES,gameboy,atari lynx, genesis, saturn,neogeo,DC,PS2,GC,X360, Wii

5 THINGS I'd like to see before i knock out:

a. a AAA 3D sonic title

b. a nintendo developed game that has a "M rating"

c. redesgined PS controller

d. SEGA back in the console business

e. M$ out of the OS business

alephnull said:
Squilliam said:
I have a question, if giving IE/WM player away killed the competition then:

1. Why are there so many video player alternatives, yet they are all free?

2. If Linux is given away for free when Microsoft has to charge for their software, isn't that anti-competitive too? Should Linux cost people money as well to make it fair?

Are you against any and all anti-dumping laws?

 

I don't even know what those are! Im not an USAan.

 



Tease.

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So what?Billy is still the richest guy in the world,I bet he is drinking orange juice right now.



Mudface said:
This is the PC forum, people are attacking Microsoft in this thread for their history of monopolistic, embrace-extend-extinguish behaviour in operating systems and other PC software. As far as I'm aware neither Sony nor Nintendo have done the same in the same area- if you know different then start a thread about them.

Personally, I couldn't give a toss about the pathetic console fanboy wars on here and elsewhere- it's just insecure teenage wankers desperate to validate their own purchases. I'm a web applications programmer and PC gamer and use Microsoft software exclusively day-in, day-out. I wouldn't touch anything from Sony with a bargepole after the rootkit fiasco, and I think Nintendo have been very lucky to get away with a gimmick and re-releasing the same old set of franchises yet again. Yet even I can see how bad Microsoft have been in the past and why it's necessary to keep an eye on them in the future.

 

 Actually if I'm not mistaken Nintendo did some heinous shit back in the NES days... things that bordered on illegal then, but are really illegal now.  I'm not going to be specific because it's been a very long time since I read about it, but I'm sure a quick google or Live Search will find some details.



Squilliam said:
alephnull said:
Squilliam said:
I have a question, if giving IE/WM player away killed the competition then:

1. Why are there so many video player alternatives, yet they are all free?

2. If Linux is given away for free when Microsoft has to charge for their software, isn't that anti-competitive too? Should Linux cost people money as well to make it fair?

Are you against any and all anti-dumping laws?

 

I don't even know what those are! Im not an USAan.

 

I suspect that even Kiwi-land has some sort of anti-dumping legislation. The classical example was television dumping in the 70s by Japanese cartels. The accusation was that either through state protectionism in the form of tariffs and subsidies, the fact that these cartels had monopoly/oligopoly pricing power, or both were able to able to undercut competitors in the US market by selling massively undercost and offset those loses in the home market. After competitors had been eliminated, they no longer sold undercost. Now whether or not this was a case of dumping you have to admit that the scenario is at least a plausible one.

Now, I'm not saying existing anti-dumping laws are not abused or are optimal. But that this scenario could easily lead to sub-optimal macroeconomic outcomes seems highly probable to me. Do you agree?

In a very similar way Microsoft's leveraging of it's OS monopoly -- by introducing special behavior when WordPerfect was detected to be running to make the system run poorly -- destroyed Wordperfect. Now Office has a monopoly and you can tell. Consumer prices range from 400-700 ish and Enterprise licensing can cost over $1k per license. This amounts to a rather significant MS tax (rent) for companies which do business in nations which are TRIPS signatories and especially those which do business with the US.

Thanks to current US (albeit declining) dominance of the international system and it's success in imposing a highly flawed artificial market (though all markets are in some sense artificial). We have a situation where a company manages to skim a significant portion of global GDP by using it's pricing power to sell a product with near 0 Marginal Cost at a vastly higher price point than would be possible in a perfectly competitive market.

If there was real competition in this market it's hard to believe that New Zealand would not be a net benefitor.



arsenicazure said:
alephnull said:
arsenicazure said:
justinian said:
There is nothing wrong with the OP. MS fanboys get their hackles up the minute anything negative is said about MS. Blind love.

MS deserves to be where there are. There won't be there forever as all Empires eventually fall and sooner than most think. MS could be on skidrow faster than you may believe.

In the meantime they carry on as any company in that position would. Power corrupts.

As for charities I believe they can do more. A man with $1,000 to his name that gives $500 to charity is in my books a bigger man than one who gives $2billion out of $20billion.

 

You do realise that bill gates does more for charity that all those rich middle eastern sheikhs, presidents, governments and organisations right? Being worth 50 billion doesnt mean u have 50 billion cash in hand a lot of that money is stocks in hand/assets etc.. not LIQUIDITY.

I really cant question his philantrophic side, no matter how much i despise his business arrogance. How much does steve jobs give to charity every year?

 

Governments account for the vast majority financially of the things people would probably classify as charity. Those sheikhs provide the funding to build a lot of mosques and the citizens of many of those countries (not to be confused with the people who work there) are provided with nice fat stipends just for being born (and if it makes them less critical of the regimes so be it).

Much like the guilded age robber barons, Gate's and Buffet's charities are politically necessary. Their public images affect their financial risk, influence, and power significantly. As astute political players, both with carefully crafted images, I'm sure they are not oblivious of this fact.

 


 

I would like to emphasize again that my critique of charity organizations is independent of Bill Gates and that to my knowledge he does more than most. Also, I'd like to point out that I do not view Gates and MS as interchangeable. Bill Gates the man, seems to me to have moved into another phase of his life. And the likely truth is that if someone like Steve Jobs was the richest man in the world, he would probably not be engaging in such acts. Though this is more a consequence of Jobs's arrogance and lack of thoughtfulness.

However, not to belabor the point, but Microsoft's risks from here on are mostly on the down side, and he was smart to declare victory and leave on a high note. Now he is playing the grander power game of international/national influence and any reader of the economist (which he is) new as far back as the early 00's that the global economic imbalances building up had the potential to destabilize the international system when they eventually became unwound. In such an environment, the richest man (or the second richest and "world's greatest investor") in the world cannot risk being seen as the poster child for excess in the midst of a depression. At least not if that man wishes to retain that wealth. And as the political pendulum swings the other way an image of altruism if he has any ambitions wielding political influence.

That he does take his charity work seriously should be of no surprise. If Gates did not take his charity work at least semi-seriously, and was not seen to be taking it seriously, the whole thing would have the potential blow up in his face. What percentage of the population do you think actually take the staged charity photo-ops many celebrities engage in positively?

Now please don't mistake this as me suggesting a vast, elaborate conspiracy on his part or that he purely motivated by power games. No doubt he thought (lately I've read that he has expressed disappointment with the effectiveness of his schemes) he could solve many serious problems engaging in good acts while leaving a much more positive legacy behind. Many people don't seem to realize that people on this level of the global stage tend to be rather concerned with how history will remember them.

However, I have known young, ambitious people from powerful political families -- state level, but possibly national in the future as Crist has positioned himself as the perfect Republican candidate for President to compete in this economic environment -- and they have similar rationalizations for similar deceptions. After all, what if you think you would do a better job helping people if you were running the show? If that's the case, you can't help people if you don't play the game. It's not about acquiring power and influence for yourself, it's about making the world a better place.

ofcourse, the political milege that powerful individuals derive from philantrophy is invaluable. But Bill gates has little to do with subsaharan AIDS or malaria in the tropics. Mosques, temples and churches are inseperable part of society and have their place but they cant replace education, a bowl of rice and a roof over your head.

Now, if you are in a position wealth in a highly religious society (most of which probably view AIDS as the wrath of GOD), building Mosques and donating to various moslem charities would probably be more effective in gaining popular goodwill in that society. Not to mention pulling large amounts of petro-dollars out of US markets, would likely be rather dangerous for them (assuming you are talking about Sovereign Wealth Funds). Please don't think that I prefer allocating resources to church building over mosquito nets to combat malaria, I just think the primary underlying motivation and goals are similar.

Considering that the middle east has 50% of the world oil reserves(wonder how many xxxtrillion dollars that is) I wonder how much these rich chador princes ACTUALLY donate to the rest of the world, especially developing countries.

More than likely roundoff error relative to their overall assets. The nameless rich in any country without political ambition tend to just fritter their money away partying as they have no need to be seen as magnanimous. In the US it just so happens that they can throw tax deductible parties if it is a charity "fundraiser" (it's not their fault if the funds raised are barely above the costs involved in throwing these fundraisers).

If you are talking about state sponsored aid, I doubt they do very well there either, but then again the US is probably around the same level as a portion of GDP (just a guess though, most comparisons only involve western countries, it's just hard to go much lower) if you don't consider weapons as aid.



Another Apple fan?

I read the OP and several pages before I got here and it's a pure hate filled rant. I'm pretty sure you neither run your own business or indeed ever will do successfully if you're so perfect you never bend or break the rules.

By the way I would happily use another OS but Linux, Mac OSX, BeOS, etc, they're all rubbish in comparison to Windows for my needs. The monopoly excuse is passed around like candy to make other companies feel good about their failure to penetrate a market with inferior products.

Flame away if you like, I care not.