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Forums - General - Healthcare isn't a business, it's peoples lives

vlad321 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
vlad321 said:

Again, maybe some, if not many of the deadlier illnesses (i.e. cancer, aids, etc.) for which we don't have a cure, will have a single way of being healed. Now, as I said earlier, patent the drug and you have exclusive rights to it for 20 years to do with whatever. No one else can produce it, nothing. So... WHAT free market economy there? Please illustrate to me how your system would work under these conditions. And remember, this is a business that is the only one that can produce something that is extremely needed by many people. Do you honestly believe they will drive down their price and allow everyone use of it, cause I sure as hell don't.

Businesses and ncesseities (and I mean actual necessities) DO NOT MIX.

 

Without free market you wouldn't have a cure to begin with, as no one would take the risk without the reward. So it takes 20 years for the poor to have access to it. Better then the rich and poor never having access to it.

Now that's just an outright lie. Again, you can say whatever about NASA and contractors but ultimately where did the money come from? The government, and wehre did it get its money? Us, by taxing us. So it's pretty obvious when shit needs to get done it gets done so stop lying to yourself and everyone else with these fabrications.

 

Again, it's risk vs reward. The single biggest focus of the US government for 10 years was landing on the moon ahead of Russia. 

AIDS killed 14,500 Americans in 2007. When that number gets to .5-1% or so of the population (1.5 to 3 million people) the US government would put the same effort into it as we did landing on the moon.

I would prefer not waiting that long.

 



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TheRealMafoo said:
vlad321 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
vlad321 said:

Again, maybe some, if not many of the deadlier illnesses (i.e. cancer, aids, etc.) for which we don't have a cure, will have a single way of being healed. Now, as I said earlier, patent the drug and you have exclusive rights to it for 20 years to do with whatever. No one else can produce it, nothing. So... WHAT free market economy there? Please illustrate to me how your system would work under these conditions. And remember, this is a business that is the only one that can produce something that is extremely needed by many people. Do you honestly believe they will drive down their price and allow everyone use of it, cause I sure as hell don't.

Businesses and ncesseities (and I mean actual necessities) DO NOT MIX.

 

Without free market you wouldn't have a cure to begin with, as no one would take the risk without the reward. So it takes 20 years for the poor to have access to it. Better then the rich and poor never having access to it.

Now that's just an outright lie. Again, you can say whatever about NASA and contractors but ultimately where did the money come from? The government, and wehre did it get its money? Us, by taxing us. So it's pretty obvious when shit needs to get done it gets done so stop lying to yourself and everyone else with these fabrications.

 

Again, it's risk vs reward. The single biggest focus of the US government for 10 years was landing on the moon ahead of Russia. 

AIDS killed 14,500 people in 2007. When that number gets to .5-1% or so of the population (1.5 to 3 million people) the US government would put the same effort into it as we did landing on the moon.

I would prefer not waiting that long.

 

There are far more infected than ones dead from it. Just in '06 there was close to 60k. Start dding those numbers up over the years, and the fact that each year brings an increase in new infections, and you can see the pressing problem. THat's also where your vote comes in. Make your politicians know what you want, plain and simple. Same with cancer of course, there are FAR more people suffering from different types of cancer. The whole point is, government can get shit done with YOUR money by taxing you. Business will just bleed everyone of their monies, steal your home, food, everything, just for that one cure. No thank you, keep necessities with the government (I come from an ex-Communist country, so I have no love for government, I just trust businesses and people a HELL of a lot less than government).



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

15 out the top 20 are European nations on that list. Australia(32) is ranked 5 places higher than the USA(37).



draik said:
halogamer1989 said:
I prefer the US system. Quality vs. quantity and more money in my paycheck. I don't want to get up at o'dark 30 drive 2 hrs away, wait in line for 3 hrs, and get told I will be fine. No thanks.

 

I don't have to do that, and get quality treatment if I'm ill. Don't make things up to try and prove your point.

 

Response times have  been measured as extremely longer in other countries than in the US.  Which in reality,  if you have an emergency and very pressing situation....Reponse time is often one of the biggest, most important factors.



vlad321 said:

There are far more infected than ones dead from it. Just in '06 there was close to 60k. Start dding those numbers up over the years, and the fact that each year brings an increase in new infections, and you can see the pressing problem. THat's also where your vote comes in. Make your politicians know what you want, plain and simple. Same with cancer of course, there are FAR more people suffering from different types of cancer. The whole point is, government can get shit done with YOUR money by taxing you. Business will just bleed everyone of their monies, steal your home, food, everything, just for that one cure. No thank you, keep necessities with the government (I come from an ex-Communist country, so I have no love for government, I just trust businesses and people a HELL of a lot less than government).

 

Your living in a dream word my friend. I don't even know why you are arguing this point with me. History has overwhelmingly poven my point. We have had rich countries of all types for the last 100 years.

Name one drug that any government discovered? Better yet, name one drug that a company for profit didn't discover.

We have a track record world wide of drug discoveries that probably look something like Private Industry: 50,000 - Government: 0.

Why would you then want to back the overwhelming underdog with peoples lives?



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Those damn commie europeans are bloody good at healthcare aren't they



vlad321 said:

Business will just bleed everyone of their monies, steal your home, food, everything, just for that one cure.

 

You do realize that 82% of Americans have health insurance right?



TheRealMafoo said:
vlad321 said:

Business will just bleed everyone of their monies, steal your home, food, everything, just for that one cure.

 

You do realize that 82% of Americans have health insurance right?

 

 100% of people in the UK have the NHS



Just as a note on pharmaceuticals ...

Coporate "Greed" is not the only (or even the largest) factor which is driving the costs of drugs higher. Every year:

  1. The cost of the Research and Development that is required to develop a new drug, test it to meet the safety standards of dozens of countries, and bring it to market gets higher;
  2. The companies have to focus on smaller and smaller markets which have lower sales potential because many of the most common problems have adequate and affordable solutions;
  3. Class action lawsuits from people who took the drug in full knowlege of the side effects and were unfortunate enough to experience the side effects become more common and have larger payouts
  4. Generic drugs create competition from companies who didn't pay for the R&D.

If you're a company and you spent $5 Billion developing and testing a drug that is used in the treatment of 10% of cancer patients, you expect to face $5 Billion in lawsuits or face competiton from generic drugs within 10 years of the release of the drug, how much do you have to charge in order to break-even/turn a profit? If you assume that you can treat 1 Million people in those 10 years the average cost of your drug is $5,000 to $10,000 per patient ...

When you factor in that many illnesses have dozens of drugs which are similar to this scenerio, is it really that much of a surprise that people can spend tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars on drugs?



tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
vlad321 said:

Business will just bleed everyone of their monies, steal your home, food, everything, just for that one cure.

 

You do realize that 82% of Americans have health insurance right?

 

 100% of people in the UK have the NHS

 

Yes, and now a government official gets to decide if your life is worth the $5,000 drug, not you.