Sorry to hear about your Grand-father and Aunt.   That's exactly the point though.  Protecting your citizens comes first, not second.  And you can make all the claims you want about trying to keep the peace and living in this perfect world.  Well guess what?  This world isn't perfect and without the bigger brothers in Europe and the USA,  a small country like Belgium would be pummeled under someone else who disagrees with the way you live life.

The point is,  Portugal agreed enough with the reasons to enter Iraq.  Probably some of their military captured Iraqi PoW's and turned them over to the US.  I don't have links to that.  It's just an opinion.   Portugal did come to Iraq with us though.

But that is not the point ! You can't use that argument to do such thing.

Of course, horrible things happen in the battlefield, but seeing that US officials autorize such methods on ... possibly innoncent people is absolutly wrong, not matter what you say.

My point is that, what you are writing here, is not better than the Bush'Administration propaganda. 8 Years when USA has lost credibility and support around the world... but that is ok, it is done now....

But don't talk about europeans like he did... he is probably the worth president the US ever had...

Note: Everybody agreed about afghanistan, not Iraq so don't mix everything about how the allies reacted to US decision (also, for you own culture, NATO HQ is in Belgium).

The dynamic that most in this discussion are missing is the fact that we aren't dealing with simple old styled factions of people here.  We are dealing with an enemy that essentially isn't "supported" by any government or governing body.  An enemy that will use whatever means necessary to get it's way.   I remember a few years back how many of these Terrorists were threatening countries (Maybe it even was Belgium) to remove their troops from Iraq or suffer the consequences.

People that kill innocent people,  don't deserve luxury treatment.  Period.

And how do you identify good or bad people ? When you arrest them you are sure about it ?

Stop being like Oreilly on Foxnews... it is not about being from left or right or whathever...

You use your best judgement and evidence at your discretion. 

It most certainly is about being from the left/right.  The reason most of Europe is in love with Obama and hated Bush was for this simple dynamic.

You are hopeless, I give up .

I vote right-wing but I don't see anything good in 8 years of Bushim...

Nevermind...

I'm not saying Bush was all that spectacular of a President.  I voted for Obama.

  Let's just be realistic here though.   Bemoaning the rights of tortured individuals(Who may or may not be guilty) and  (Which torture no doubt exists across the globe in every walk of life) while diminishing the innocent lives of Americans who died in terrorist attacks.  Is rather hypocritical. 

I guess we'll see how Belgium reacts when terrorists hijack some planes and crash them into some of the biggest landmarks in Belgium and kill thousands of people in the process?  

Just remember, the very nature of the battle that you are fighting is one where there isn't some defined enemy.  It's not like Red vs Blue,  Or USA vs Russia.   The only way you can keep yourself protected is by keeping the information pipeline open.  Being Civil is wonderful,  sadly it really is a two-way street.

I would probably qualify as a terrorist in Tyrannical's book.

This argument is pointless. America's actions have already proven the morality (or lack thereof) of the politicians involved in this senseless torturing of what turned out to be many innocent "prisoners of war." The politicians were not looking for the true terrorists involved in 9/11, but wanted to look like they are doing SOMETHING so they can get the votes and stay in office. This (racial profiling to calm the citizens of America down) happened before, like during the Cold War when Americans were arresting "Commies," when America made concentration camps for Japanese citizens, etc. Nothing changes.

The reason why I said that this argument is pointless is because neither sides - the side supporting torture and the side against torture - are going to prove to the other side that they are right. We picked our sides for a legitimate reason and it is going to stay that way for the majority of the people.

All I can say is that our personal opinion and actions will show to others where our conscience and personal values lie in. Those who say that they are good, moral Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. and still support torturing people to protect their neck and other people are just bullshitting themselves (sry for the language). If you needed to resort to torture like waterboarding to help people, you lost. The very thing you wanted to protect from "terrorists" - freedom, equality, liberty, etc. - becomes meaningless when you need to humiliate and torture your "prisoners of war." Instead of being the protector of freedom, you become just another scared little boy wanting to protect himself from those who started the fight.

Btw, there was a recent book from a man who was one of the interrogators in Afghanistan and showed that those who used the methods mentioned in the OP did not get anything useful. In fact, if anything, they became more resistant to talk and sometimes let out false information. Those treated with respect and kindness actually gave out useful information and methods that uses respect and kindness proved to be very useful. Of course, I'm sure you all knew that, right?