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Forums - General - Why Capitalists feel Capitalism is best for all.

vlad321 on 10 April 2009
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:

Then again my public school was in the top 100 of Newsweek every year, so guess that's just anecdotal evidence. I just know I loved scoring higher on every single competition (math/scince/coding mostly) than the people from the local private schools. As did just about everyone who went to those from our school.

Anecdotal evidence ftl.

Although if you look at Georgia Institue of Technology, it's in the top 10 schools in the US for several categories.

 

Well the problem is you've got a bunch of "poor" schools pulling you down.  Which is the main problem of public schools.  Not that the good schools aren't good.

It's that the bad schools are bad... and there is little incentive to really fix them.  Since nobody really loses their jobs over it... and they have a monopoly.

That's true. That's why I beilve that a merit pay system is REALLY needed. Also the upper tiers of pay should definitely be competative with other careers.

 

I'm not sure i agree there.  I mean getting a teaching degree takes a lot of time... but it's just not as much effort as comparative degrees.  Neither is the workload.

Teachers just don't work as hard as microbiologists and the like.

Interestingly private school teachers get paid less then public school teachers.

The fact that they have to fight for their career i think helps that.

 

Yes and without teachers there wouldnt be microbiologists now woudl there? Ultimately teachers are some of the most important people in ANY society.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

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Kasz216 on 10 April 2009
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:

Then again my public school was in the top 100 of Newsweek every year, so guess that's just anecdotal evidence. I just know I loved scoring higher on every single competition (math/scince/coding mostly) than the people from the local private schools. As did just about everyone who went to those from our school.

Anecdotal evidence ftl.

Although if you look at Georgia Institue of Technology, it's in the top 10 schools in the US for several categories.

 

Well the problem is you've got a bunch of "poor" schools pulling you down.  Which is the main problem of public schools.  Not that the good schools aren't good.

It's that the bad schools are bad... and there is little incentive to really fix them.  Since nobody really loses their jobs over it... and they have a monopoly.

That's true. That's why I beilve that a merit pay system is REALLY needed. Also the upper tiers of pay should definitely be competative with other careers.

 

I'm not sure i agree there.  I mean getting a teaching degree takes a lot of time... but it's just not as much effort as comparative degrees.  Neither is the workload.

Teachers just don't work as hard as microbiologists and the like.

Interestingly private school teachers get paid less then public school teachers.

The fact that they have to fight for their career i think helps that.

 

Yes and without teachers there wouldnt be microbiologists now woudl there? Ultimately teachers are some of the most important people in ANY society.

Well that's just not true.

I mean teachers haven't always existed yet people still learned how to do stuff without them.

Besides.  That's just more reason to make all the schools private.

 



pearljammer on 10 April 2009
Kasz216 said:
pearljammer said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:

Then again my public school was in the top 100 of Newsweek every year, so guess that's just anecdotal evidence. I just know I loved scoring higher on every single competition (math/scince/coding mostly) than the people from the local private schools. As did just about everyone who went to those from our school.

Anecdotal evidence ftl.

Although if you look at Georgia Institue of Technology, it's in the top 10 schools in the US for several categories.

 

Well the problem is you've got a bunch of "poor" schools pulling you down.  Which is the main problem of public schools.  Not that the good schools aren't good.

It's that the bad schools are bad... and there is little incentive to really fix them.  Since nobody really loses their jobs over it... and they have a monopoly.

That's true. That's why I beilve that a merit pay system is REALLY needed. Also the upper tiers of pay should definitely be competative with other careers.

 

I'm not sure i agree there.  I mean getting a teaching degree takes a lot of time... but it's just not as much effort as comparative degrees.  Neither is the workload.

Teachers just don't work as hard as microbiologists and the like.

Interestingly private school teachers get paid less then public school teachers.

The fact that they have to fight for their career i think helps that.

Gee, thanks.

For secondary school, you need at least two degrees here in Canada. A B.Sc or a B.A as well as a B.Ed.

For the primary/elementary schooling, it's more focused and you need a 5 year B.Ed degree.

I'm really not sure what you need in the US.

About the same amount of education you need to be a microbiolgist.

Most of the jobs that require the same amount of education are really a lot harder.

Unless you disagree that a teachers job isn't as tough as things like microbiology.

 

Well I certainly wouldn't claim to have that knowledge.

My friend just recently finished his masters in biochemistry (not microbiology, I know) and started his job only recently. I'm sure he'd be hard-pressed to say which is 'tougher'. What do you mean exactly by 'harder' and 'tough'?

 



numonex on 10 April 2009

Capitalism in the western world encourages a dog eat dog environment. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Capitalism encourages an immoral materialistic world where the gap between the haves and have nots widen all the time.

Lol at the Global Financial Crisis - look how great Capitalism is? The free capital markets will correct themselves eventually. Fingers crossed.



pearljammer on 10 April 2009
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:

Then again my public school was in the top 100 of Newsweek every year, so guess that's just anecdotal evidence. I just know I loved scoring higher on every single competition (math/scince/coding mostly) than the people from the local private schools. As did just about everyone who went to those from our school.

Anecdotal evidence ftl.

Although if you look at Georgia Institue of Technology, it's in the top 10 schools in the US for several categories.

 

Well the problem is you've got a bunch of "poor" schools pulling you down.  Which is the main problem of public schools.  Not that the good schools aren't good.

It's that the bad schools are bad... and there is little incentive to really fix them.  Since nobody really loses their jobs over it... and they have a monopoly.

That's true. That's why I beilve that a merit pay system is REALLY needed. Also the upper tiers of pay should definitely be competative with other careers.

 

I'm not sure i agree there.  I mean getting a teaching degree takes a lot of time... but it's just not as much effort as comparative degrees.  Neither is the workload.

Teachers just don't work as hard as microbiologists and the like.

Interestingly private school teachers get paid less then public school teachers.

The fact that they have to fight for their career i think helps that.

 

Yes and without teachers there wouldnt be microbiologists now woudl there? Ultimately teachers are some of the most important people in ANY society.

Well that's just not true.

I mean teachers haven't always existed yet people still learned how to do stuff without them.

Besides.  That's just more reason to make all the schools private.

 

And what you say isn't necessarily true either.

Teachers have always existed, just not in the same formal, structured sense as we have today. Also, I think that would be an unfair comparison, regardless. In a modern world, where knowledge is expanding at a rate unlike any time you may be referring to, I think it's imperative that we have institutes in place where we teach children to remain so progressive.

At your final remark: I'm not following, could you explain?



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numonex on 10 April 2009

Globalisation created by extreme Capitalism is where rich scumbag millionaires use scab workers, offshore jobs to the cheapest rates or even use slave labour to save on wage costs. Globalisation is pure evil created by Capitalism.

Capitalism caused the Global Financial Crisis. Rogue Wall Street traders stealing trillions of dollars from the world financial markets and hiding it away in tax free safe havens overseas. Corporate executives getting their 20 million+ annual salaries, tens of millions in share options and up to $50 million in golden handshakes even if their actions or inactions led to the collapse of companies where hard working class people worked at for a pittance.



Kasz216 on 10 April 2009
pearljammer said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:

Then again my public school was in the top 100 of Newsweek every year, so guess that's just anecdotal evidence. I just know I loved scoring higher on every single competition (math/scince/coding mostly) than the people from the local private schools. As did just about everyone who went to those from our school.

Anecdotal evidence ftl.

Although if you look at Georgia Institue of Technology, it's in the top 10 schools in the US for several categories.

 

Well the problem is you've got a bunch of "poor" schools pulling you down.  Which is the main problem of public schools.  Not that the good schools aren't good.

It's that the bad schools are bad... and there is little incentive to really fix them.  Since nobody really loses their jobs over it... and they have a monopoly.

That's true. That's why I beilve that a merit pay system is REALLY needed. Also the upper tiers of pay should definitely be competative with other careers.

 

I'm not sure i agree there.  I mean getting a teaching degree takes a lot of time... but it's just not as much effort as comparative degrees.  Neither is the workload.

Teachers just don't work as hard as microbiologists and the like.

Interestingly private school teachers get paid less then public school teachers.

The fact that they have to fight for their career i think helps that.

 

Yes and without teachers there wouldnt be microbiologists now woudl there? Ultimately teachers are some of the most important people in ANY society.

Well that's just not true.

I mean teachers haven't always existed yet people still learned how to do stuff without them.

Besides.  That's just more reason to make all the schools private.

 

And what you say isn't necessarily true either.

Teachers have always existed, just not in the same formal, structured sense as we have today. Also, I think that would be an unfair comparison, regardless. In a modern world, where knowledge is expanding at a rate unlike any time you may be referring to, I think it's imperative that we have institutes in place where we teach children to remain so progressive.

At your final remark: I'm not following, could you explain?

In captialism people are paid what they are viewed to be worth.  If people view that htose jobs are worth more... people won't choose those jobs.

 

 



Kasz216 on 10 April 2009
numonex said:
Capitalism in the western world encourages a dog eat dog environment. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Capitalism encourages an immoral materialistic world where the gap between the haves and have nots widen all the time.

Lol at the Global Financial Crisis - look how great Capitalism is? The free capital markets will correct themselves eventually. Fingers crossed.

If it wasn't for capitalism the worlds economys wouldn't be in such great shape in the first place.  Standards of living wouldn't be so high in the first place.

So it seems kinda goofy to be upset about it.

Even with the economic crisis the world is in a better place then it would of been in a non-capitalsitic society.

The poor in capitalistic societies are just better off then everyone in non capitalistic ones.

I mean... look what happened to the USSR despite the USSR having so much going for it in terms of resources.

 



pearljammer on 10 April 2009
Kasz216 said:
pearljammer said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:

Then again my public school was in the top 100 of Newsweek every year, so guess that's just anecdotal evidence. I just know I loved scoring higher on every single competition (math/scince/coding mostly) than the people from the local private schools. As did just about everyone who went to those from our school.

Anecdotal evidence ftl.

Although if you look at Georgia Institue of Technology, it's in the top 10 schools in the US for several categories.

 

Well the problem is you've got a bunch of "poor" schools pulling you down.  Which is the main problem of public schools.  Not that the good schools aren't good.

It's that the bad schools are bad... and there is little incentive to really fix them.  Since nobody really loses their jobs over it... and they have a monopoly.

That's true. That's why I beilve that a merit pay system is REALLY needed. Also the upper tiers of pay should definitely be competative with other careers.

 

I'm not sure i agree there.  I mean getting a teaching degree takes a lot of time... but it's just not as much effort as comparative degrees.  Neither is the workload.

Teachers just don't work as hard as microbiologists and the like.

Interestingly private school teachers get paid less then public school teachers.

The fact that they have to fight for their career i think helps that.

 

Yes and without teachers there wouldnt be microbiologists now woudl there? Ultimately teachers are some of the most important people in ANY society.

Well that's just not true.

I mean teachers haven't always existed yet people still learned how to do stuff without them.

Besides.  That's just more reason to make all the schools private.

 

And what you say isn't necessarily true either.

Teachers have always existed, just not in the same formal, structured sense as we have today. Also, I think that would be an unfair comparison, regardless. In a modern world, where knowledge is expanding at a rate unlike any time you may be referring to, I think it's imperative that we have institutes in place where we teach children to remain so progressive.

At your final remark: I'm not following, could you explain?

In captialism people are paid what they are viewed to be worth.  If people view that htose jobs are worth more... people won't choose those jobs.

Ah, admittedly, I hadn't payed much attention to what the topic had originally been about. I was lured in out of interest of talks of education.

I would agree with you for the most part, but I think you may be slightly oversimplifying. Many choose career paths that pay less than what they could have gotten elsewhere simply out of preference or other personal reasons.



Kasz216 on 10 April 2009
pearljammer said:
Kasz216 said:
pearljammer said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:

Then again my public school was in the top 100 of Newsweek every year, so guess that's just anecdotal evidence. I just know I loved scoring higher on every single competition (math/scince/coding mostly) than the people from the local private schools. As did just about everyone who went to those from our school.

Anecdotal evidence ftl.

Although if you look at Georgia Institue of Technology, it's in the top 10 schools in the US for several categories.

 

Well the problem is you've got a bunch of "poor" schools pulling you down.  Which is the main problem of public schools.  Not that the good schools aren't good.

It's that the bad schools are bad... and there is little incentive to really fix them.  Since nobody really loses their jobs over it... and they have a monopoly.

That's true. That's why I beilve that a merit pay system is REALLY needed. Also the upper tiers of pay should definitely be competative with other careers.

 

I'm not sure i agree there.  I mean getting a teaching degree takes a lot of time... but it's just not as much effort as comparative degrees.  Neither is the workload.

Teachers just don't work as hard as microbiologists and the like.

Interestingly private school teachers get paid less then public school teachers.

The fact that they have to fight for their career i think helps that.

 

Yes and without teachers there wouldnt be microbiologists now woudl there? Ultimately teachers are some of the most important people in ANY society.

Well that's just not true.

I mean teachers haven't always existed yet people still learned how to do stuff without them.

Besides.  That's just more reason to make all the schools private.

 

And what you say isn't necessarily true either.

Teachers have always existed, just not in the same formal, structured sense as we have today. Also, I think that would be an unfair comparison, regardless. In a modern world, where knowledge is expanding at a rate unlike any time you may be referring to, I think it's imperative that we have institutes in place where we teach children to remain so progressive.

At your final remark: I'm not following, could you explain?

In captialism people are paid what they are viewed to be worth.  If people view that htose jobs are worth more... people won't choose those jobs.

Ah, admittedly, I hadn't payed much attention to what the topic had originally been about. I was lured in out of interest of talks of education.

I would agree with you for the most part, but I think you may be slightly oversimplifying. Many choose career paths that pay less than what they could have gotten elsewhere simply out of preference or other personal reasons.

Not really.  That's a part of the calculation.

I mean think about it.

If what i'm doing is worth the same as what you are doing to society.... but more people want to do my job.... don't you deserve more money?  Since something about your job is intrinsically undesireable in comparison to mine?